Loader Build Help

Here's where you can post your Cub Cadet based specials. Actually, if it's cool and not Cub based, post it anyway!

Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:54 pm

I have a Kwik Way loader that is missing the framework between the tractor and the loader.
The loader is going on my IH Cub Cadet 149.
Can someone post some pictures of their framework and hydraulic pump mount?
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby BigMike » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:21 pm

It may not be exactly what you need but AW has the subframe from my Johnson.
User avatar
BigMike
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
City and State: Niles,Michigan
First and Last Name: Mike Andrews

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Tom Scott » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:25 am

Dale - Click on my user name, then look in my "Gallery/picture album" I have a few in there. Obviously mine is for an SGT, but I would think you could just size it for the 149.

You definitely want the loader as reasonably close to the grille as possible, that weight just keeps getting worse on the front axle as you push it forward. Keep this thread going, it will be neat to watch you move forward with it.
:beer:
2135, (at parent's)
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
<><
User avatar
Tom Scott
Moderator
 
Posts: 1436
Images: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:11 pm
City and State: Bentley Springs, Maryland
First and Last Name: Tom Scott

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:25 am

Tom,
Thanks for link to your loader pictures. I like the stands holding the loader up when not in use.
I'm still in the research stage with my loader project. I want some bracing from the loader framework to the rear axle and to the center of the tractor frame. I may get carried away with the support on the loader frame.....rather have too much than not enough.
I'm planning to post more pictures of my loader build as I get into it.

Big Mike
I see a road trip to AW's in the future with my camera and tape measure in hand.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby BigMike » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:28 pm

Merk, any progress?
User avatar
BigMike
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
City and State: Niles,Michigan
First and Last Name: Mike Andrews

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:08 pm

I'm still in a design phase.
I started a loader build topic on 4 different sites and received some great information. Someone sent an email that had a Kwik-Way loader install instructions to mount the same loader on a Wide Frame IH Cub Cadet. After down loading the instruction I realized I had a copy. Someone posted pictures of the Kwik-Way to wide frame framework that I need to build. I found several loader builds on different tractor sites that were a great help. I had the loader plans from pf engineering. I thought I could modify pf engineering loader framework plans to work with the Kwik Way loader I have. I like how the Kwik Way frame work connects to the tractor over the pf engineering plans.

The tractor I want to install loader on is my 149. The 149 is used for snow removal in the winter.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby BigMike » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:00 pm

Got to design before you can build....sounds like progress to me.
User avatar
BigMike
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
City and State: Niles,Michigan
First and Last Name: Mike Andrews

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby BigMike » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:00 pm

Merk, you making any more progress on your loader than I am making on my engine build?
User avatar
BigMike
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
City and State: Niles,Michigan
First and Last Name: Mike Andrews

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby DaveKamp » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:44 am

Well, Merk- any progress yet?
Mounting the loader frame isn't the hard part... it's all the other stuff... :roll:
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.
DaveKamp
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
City and State: LeClaire, Ia
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:24 pm

I did manage to find and buy the framework that goes between the loader and the tractor. I need to do some work to my 149 before I install the loader to it. I have the 1 inch spindles and rims that are going to the front of my 149. The trunion/shifter linkage is loose. That needs fix before the loader goes on. I need a pump for the hydraulic system.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:51 pm

I've been thinking about finding another hydro wide frame (109-129-149-169) to make into a loader tractor to.

I retired last June so I would have time to work on my IH Cub Cadets. Been working everything else but Cub Cadets.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Jlaws » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:44 pm

Dale a 149 or 169 be a good choice for a loader platform , plenty of power , and especially if you use 1 inch spindles . My Johnson started out on a 1450 and then was moved to a 782 , both good choices except the side panels are a pain to take off and put on with the loader arms in the way . :(

I'm to OCD to use it without the side panels :lol:

I'm sure you'll post pictures of your progress , we like pictures . 8-)
I see a lot of cub cadets while going down the tracks , its a shame I can't pull over and ask about them .
User avatar
Jlaws
 
Posts: 1132
Images: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:14 pm
City and State: Independence , Ky
First and Last Name: Jess Laws

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:57 pm

I have a K321 and a slightly modified K301 that needs a home. I need the rest of a tractor. Hopefully a" Rick deal " will show up.

I may a chance to buy a power steering off a newer Cub Cadet. Hopefully it will be a easy system to add to my loader tractor.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby BigMike » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:15 pm

Merk, I would seriously consider building your own steel axle and knuckle/spindles.
User avatar
BigMike
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
City and State: Niles,Michigan
First and Last Name: Mike Andrews

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby DaveKamp » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:52 pm

Dale, I'll second Mike's note on that... and for THREE reasons-

First, is the knuckle on the left side...

Second, is the knuckle on the right side...

and third... is the cast iron beam in between...

You'll wind up with five parts... where there once was three.

Seriously... I started out knowing full well that I was gonna need power steering. it takes two hands to manage a Cub Cadet with conventional steering and NO loader... and I knew that to make an effective machine, it was gonna need ONE FINGER steering... that means hydraulic power. I looked into the 'factory' power steering, and noted that it was very, very expensive... in comparison to two hydraulic rams, one valve, and some fabrication. Seein's how you're already gonna have a hydraulic pump driven off the engine, adding full hydraulic steering is a no-additional-troubles type thing.

Now, the cast iron beam... it's brittle. I've broken three... one with the loader on (but no load), one with a loaded bucket, and one on my 109 (plow tractor) broke just from hitting a hole in the yard. Better to use some stout steel tubing.

The stock Cub Cadet knuckles can be reinforced, but if you're going full power steering, mount the rams on the beam, make a pair of knuckles out of some channel iron and two pieces of plate, some 1" trailer spindles and hubs, and use 8" TRAILER rims (not golf-cart wheels) and 18-850-8 6-ply trailer tires.

The Cub Cadet knuckles will not only bend under a heavy bucket and a slight bump, the steering linkage points are not placed in a way that's useful for hydraulic steering. Look at the pictures of Loader-Mutt's front setup, and you'll see that when my cylinders are pushing the knuckles, there's NO joints involved in the steering forces other than the beam and the knuckles. A factory power-steering cylinder pushes from the frame to the knuckle, which puts torque on the axle pivot... it's trying to PUSH the left side of the axle forward. Bad geometry.

To make a good front-end loader axle, you'll need to make three pivots (middle, and two knuckles). Of course, if you're worried that your fabrication skills, you might be able to talk Me or Mike into building you one. If you seek out a pair of appropriate hydraulic cylinders, we could probably whip the whole thing up into a 'drop in' assembly... but it might require some arm-twisting and compensation... ;-)

I can give you dimensions and sketches if you'd like.

If you're planning on building up a dedicated machine, I'll tell you all the 'right' things to do FIRST, rather than hafta trample through the same learning-path that I have...
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.
DaveKamp
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
City and State: LeClaire, Ia
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Jlaws » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:50 am

A front axle and spindle upgrade would be nice , but I've used my stock axle and spindles and never had a problem and I've never overloaded my 48 " bucket . :roll: :lol:
I've had so much gravel in the bucket that the loader didn't want to go up a slight grade and that's with 400 lbs of wheel weights and a box grader on the back . :lol:
I have had a few issues with breaking rear axles .

And what is power steering ? mine steers fine once you get it rolling . :lol:

I agree with dave on using 8 " highway trailer tires the stiffer the side wall and wider they are the better . Mine have about 75 PSI in them and are great in soft soil conditions .

All kidding aside , a perfect loader would have power steering and foot control , maybe a future project for me . ;)
I see a lot of cub cadets while going down the tracks , its a shame I can't pull over and ask about them .
User avatar
Jlaws
 
Posts: 1132
Images: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:14 pm
City and State: Independence , Ky
First and Last Name: Jess Laws

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:05 am

I talk to a gent that has a kwik-way loader on a Quiet Line Cub Cadet. Last spring he added a power steering system off a newer Cub Cadet (think it was a super). He wasn't having any problems and his wife loves running the loader tractor the last time I talk to him.

My Uncle has an IH 504 Utility tractor with a loader on it. I grew up running this tractor. It only has 1 steering cylinder that is mounted under the engine. Never had any problems with that system. It looks like to me having 2 steering cylinders could get in a bind and break something.

On another site there was someone modified his front axle so he had a thrust bearing-washer
https://www.mcmaster.com/#thrust-washers/=1b5iv27
between the axle and knuckle/axle. The axle will need modified to make it work.

Here are the tires I'm planning to use:
http://www.millertire.com/products/impl ... 0-8-6-ply/
I have a set that were on a tractor I sold.

The loader bucket is on the big side (my $.02). The bucket is 20 inches high 20 to 25 inches deep. I want to reduce the bucket height to 15 inches and the depth to 15-18 inches. It is too easy to overload the bucket and cause extra stress on the loader tractor.

I've been using a thrust bearing-washer set up on any IH Cub Cadet steering box I rebuild. The grease I use is John Deere corn header grease. It is thin enough to keep the wear areas greased. My IH Cub Cadet 100 has a 50 pound weight on the front end of the tractor. I still have 1 finger steering.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:40 pm

Another thing I want to change the style of rod ends.
I'm looking to use this style
https://www.mcmaster.com/#4444t22/=1b5k2c5

All the mods should make it steer easier.

Something else I may look into is triangulating the front axle. The picture shows how the axle is supported.
http://www.tractordata.com/photos/F000/ ... ext045.jpg
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby DaveKamp » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:05 am

Triangulating the axle isn't a bad idea, but it isn't necessary. The applications where triangulation is most necessary, is when the center of the wheel hub axis is substantially LOWER than the axle pivot point. Hi-crop tractors... like the Oliver 88, Allis D17, etc., or my WD with Schwartz adjustable WF... what happens, as the wheels roll over irregularities, is that the axle beam is applying substantial fore-aft reaction to the axle pivot. That torque destroys the pivot rapidly. By adding triangulation rearward, the axle's pivot axis is better supported. The antithesis of this situation would be if the axle were flipped (upside down), the pivot being LOWER than the wheel hub axis, it would naturally want to 'hang' centered. It would still want to 'swing' fore/aft, but gravity would tend to return it to center.

The reason why INDIVIDUALS choose to triangulate, is because the axle yaws right-left in response to thrust from the steering drag link on one or the other knuckle. As wear progresses, the axle wobbles right-left more, causing more slop within the steering cycle, and with it, limited turning circle. It also means that as the axle yaws, the steering wanders (because the distance between steering box and knuckle changes). Driving down the road fast results in 'hunting', or if you're going fast enough, what Jeepers call 'death wobble'. One of the solutions that SOME have employed to attempt to reduce this, is to redirect the steering box thrust straight forward, then put a 90-degree pivot that translates steering action parallel to the axle beam, and in some cases, they just connect the pivot to tie rod... and this helps, but adds one more point of slop.

Realize that although there's room underneath the Cub Cadet, there's lots of hardware in the way... the loader frame, underside of the engine, etc., are all right there.


An 'Overloaded Bucket' means you've taken a scoop who's volume exceed's the bucket's ability to retain the contents, thus, they overflow onto the ground, onto the hood, engine, and operator... has nothing really to do with the machine's weight capacity. When you stick the edge of the bucket underneath a piece of concrete, and pull on the levers to pop the broken chunk out of the ground, the leverage angles, cylinder dimensions, hydraulic pump drive ratios and hydraulic pressure-relief valves determine wether you'll be able to lift whatever it is you're attempting. Making a smaller bucket doesn't change the physical loading of the machine, it just makes it so that you can't move as much snow, and that you leave a trail of mulch across the lawn as you go. ;-)

The problem with the IH Cub Cadet cast iron axle, is specifically that- it's cast iron, and NOT a malleable iron flavor. Naturally, it's very brittle, and while it is heavy and durable in day-to-day use, it's NOT able to 'fail gracefully'... it only fails one way... without warning. Most times, when you hear of axles breaking, it's on ordinary tractors, someone gets carried away and winds up with the front wheels in the air, then it drops back down onto the tires fast, and 'bang'. To make it worse, the IHCC mule drive's fitment oftentimes places the belt-deflection sheaves' flanges in contact with the beam... look at a dozen IHCCs used for mowing, and ten of those will have little V-grooves in the front of the beam, just on either side of the pivot. Right where the lower 'flange' of the 'I-beam shape' is. There's your weakest point... far from the load, and right through the meat which you need the most. When you see that, imagine the axle folded up right there, with the mule-drive area buried in the ground, and the tops of the tires stuffed against the sides of the hood tinwork, with bent steering rods and knuckles. That's what happens, and I'm not ashamed to share this as personal experience. The cast iron beam idea wasn't a bad idea, but malleable iron, and more clearance on the mule drive would have made all the difference in the world.

The factory power steering systems that use just one cylinder, are either special, or wrong. The 'special' types, have a rod that passes all the way through the cylinder. The 'wrong' types, use just one conventional cylinder. The difference being, that rod-through design, is 'balanced'... the volume required to extend the cylinder, is the same as the volume required to retract it. A common hydraulic cylinder generally requires upwards of twice as much fluid to extend as retract, because the retracting side has a piston rod occupying what would have been working displacement. Calculate bore and stroke of the non-rod side, and that's what it takes to extend. Now calculate the diameter and length of the rod, subtract that from the cylinder displacement, and you have retract volume.
When you use a non-balanced design, the result is 5 turns lock-to-lock to go right, and 2.5 turns to go full lock left. People do that, and it works, but the steering sucks.

The factory power steering pricetag was pretty darned high, considering how they're built and what they do... much much higher than just buying a valve, two cylinders, and some hoses and doing it right. People put a high pricetag on these parts because they want a 'bolt on' solution... and although it DOES provide power steering, it does nothing to correct all the other maladies. When I change things, I address as many issues as possible in my designs at once. For example... I could have put brackets on the original cast iron beam axle... but I would have either had to clamp around, or drill through, to make that happen. Can't weld to the iron. By going fabricated steel, that's not an issue. I could have put a brace UNDER the axle to make it stronger under vertical load... instead, I shaped the fabricated axle to do same. I could have reinforced the knuckles, or even make new knuckles to fit the factory iron axle (wait... I actually DID both of those...) and even convert to 1" SG spindle bearings (did that too), but ordinary trailer axle spindles are on there now. ;-)

On mine, I used two cylinders, in push-push mode... back ends pinned to brackets welded to the axle beam... and rod end pushing on the knuckle. With one pushing each way, it's naturally balanced, and because they're small, and act directly on the knuckles, there's very little to hanging out to get snagged, nothing to break. My tie-rod is BEHIND the axle, and instead of little sissy rods, I used 1" square tubing, with an industrial heim joint that has a 5/8" bore through the sphere. If you ask AW, he can provide you with these joints, because I've 'arranged' for a few for him. ;-)

You can attempt to reinforce the existing axle and knuckles, and try to enhance the mechanical steering... I did that before. I wish I hadn't wasted the time, but fortunately, I'm glad I saw the future and moved to a better design. It's like a guy wanting to make a hotrod out of a Model A Ford... you can swap the 40hp inline four with a 60hp flathead eight, three-speed, torque tube, and original and keep the solid front axle, yoke, steering and mechanical brakes, or you can bolt on a Mustang II IFS with rack-and-pinion/disk brakes, and drop in a 350 Chevy with a 700R4 pushing a Ford 9". The difference is drivability, safety, and performance vs. nostalgia.

I'm not saying your axle won't survive... it might. If it does break, and you're facing downhill, at an angle, with the bucket 3" off the ground, you're going over the dashboard and hood, and the machine will land on top of you.


---------------------


Yesterday, on my jobsite, one of my truck drivers had an air-suspension control valve bracket break off his trailer. ONly way to get it back on, was to weld it in place. One of my guys had a welder on his truck, and was happy to allow the driver to use it to weld the bracket back on, but he did NOT want to loan anyone his automatic-darkening welding helmet, on account that it was 'really expensive'. Yeah, just under $400 for a new one.

Of course, nobody else had one... so the driver was gonna hafta weld it by braille, and of course, unprotected.

I thought about it, and went back to my guy and said "Hey Bill- I understand you're concerned about an expensive helmet. Ed has a wife, kids, and mortage, and a truck stuck in the driveway here. Although I can NOT buy a man a new pair of eyes... but I can buy a new helmet any day of the week. I'll make you a deal- You loan him your helmet, just to get that bracket stuck back on, and if he even puts so much as a GREASE SMUDGE on it, I'll KEEP yours, and buy you TWO NEW ONES.

He thought about that for a minute.
Then he pulled out his helmet and handed it to me.

There are times when doing something right means accepting the circumstances for what they are, and setting our dispositions aside. I couldn't buy ONE RETINA for eight hundred bucks... so even if I did wind up having to buy two helmets, it still would'a been a good deal for me.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.
DaveKamp
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
City and State: LeClaire, Ia
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:40 pm

I grew up on a farm and been around tractors with loaders all my life. First tractor-loader I used was a narrow front Farmall H with a trip bucket loader. The H didn't have power steering or live hydraulics (pump is disengaged when clutch pedal is push in). It was real fun trying to haul manure in the winter. Manure was usually 2-3 feet deep when we clean the pen in the winter time. You had has to have some speed (because the manure was froze) to fill the bucket. I used to hit the pile and waited for the back wheels to start spinning. I would try to raise the bucket enough as the rear wheels were spinning so I can back the tractor away from the pile (3-6 inches). As I was backing I would raise the loader 8 to 12 inches off the ground. Just a reminder...clutch has to be engage for the hydraulic system. You needed to keep the tractor moving to make it steer easier.
Another fun spot was the ramp to let the cows into the milking parlor. The ramp was ground level to 1 foot high. This was right by the door opening that went outside. You had a good pucker factor going the first times when hauling a load out to the manure spreader.

The IH 504 Utility that has the loader has power steering and live hydraulics. I usually have the tractor moving before I move the steering wheel. This is normal for me when driving a non power steering vehicle.

I keep the loader bucket close to the ground when I'm driving. The higher the bucket....the easier the tractor-loader can tip over.

I have a axle that doesn't have the V-grooves in the front of the beam.

As of right now I'm going to go with a Cub Cadet front axle. Most likely it will powered by a K301 and do all the mods I posted with the exception of the triangulating the front axle and a smaller bucket. Both may come later.

The loader tractor will only be driven by me or my Son. It will be used to move dirt, compost, stone and snow.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby DaveKamp » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:14 am

Well, I'm both surprised and relieved that you've got an iron-beam that doesn't have V-notches worn in 'em. if you're satisfied that your axle is strong enough to handle the full weight of the bucket load, PLUS the full load fo the loader attachment PLUS the full weight in the bucket (because once you've reached an ability to lift the back wheels off the ground, the front wheels are carrying it ALL...)then power-to-ya... I'm just telling you what worked best and what didn't work so well.

My Allis tractors' factory hydraulics are all same as yours... My D-17 is a Series 1... they didn't give it full live 'till Series 4. I wish it had it, but it doesn't. All the originals (like IH/Farmalls of the early era) were high-pressure/low volume, and only one lift circuit, single-ended rather than double-acting... so two things are guaranteed... first is that it's slow, second is that you get to go up... gravity has'ta do the down. It certainly made 'trip buckets' acceptable. The Series 4 went not only full-live, it also went low-pressure/high volume, with more reservoir capacity AND multiple control circuits. I'd like a Series 4, but so would everybody else... :lol:

Fortunately though, the D17 it has the 'power director'... a high-low box with NEUTRAL, and it's clutches, so you can leave the foot clutch out, maneuver with the hand (hi lo) which keeps hydraulics running. AC made an additional version of the 'power director' system that instead of high-low, it was forward-reverse. I believe they swapped components around inside the transmission to make it 5 ratios too... and for running a loader, that would be fantastic (pick a ground speed, and just throw the hand lever)... but live hydraulics of the high-volume/low pressure would certainly have to be included.

My D17 has factory power steering. My WCs, WDs... don't... but there's more times-than-not that I'm maneuvering, particularly backing up, when facing forward and putting both hands on the wheel to get the darned NFE to turn means I can't let out the clutch AND see behind me. Yeah, forward ain't so much a problem, but God gave us machines for a reason. The 'Schwartz' fitted WD WILL have power steering... of course, it'll also have a heated cab, a forward position, live hydraulics, perhaps even a Buda gasoline inline six... and mebbie... just mebbie... I'll butcher up the space between the pinion gear and trans input shaft to install a hydrostatic drive and treadle pedal...

Which reminds me... Yeah, one aspect of Loader-Mutt that I did, but need to revisit, is the treadle. I used one of the shafts and bushings (either speed/direction or brakes, I don't remember) to affect a simple treadle to the 15U trunion. It works, but it's sloppy, sometimes vague, oftentimes makes the machine decide to 'creep'. I need to take off all the loose-floppy stuff, and just come up with a better linkage. The rod-end joints you illustrated would probably be in the category of what I'll use. I've seen guys suggest ends similar to what IH and others use for steering rods... basically, it's a ball inside a cup... when the cup and ball wears, eventually the rod 'hops off' the ball and you lose control. A rod end joint like the one you noted from McMaster has the distinct advantage (and the reason why I like them) to be fixed with a bolt, where a washer and nut on the ball side means that even if the ball is all worn out and sloppy, it cannot just 'fall off', because the washer and bolt head prevent it from going far. Yeah, sloppy, but still restrained.

The 301 will certainly manage the task of loader-duty... the issue I found most problematic with the K-singles is just getting them to start under really cold conditions, while coupled to a hydrostat on one end, and a hydraulic pump on the others. That cold oil puts a heckuva drag on the engine starter, and if you have much compression in the engine, it doesn't play ball without being dragged inside to warm up. When I built Mutt, I chose the ring-gear start version, partly because it could put more arse into the flywheel, and furthermore, because it free'd up the PTO end for hydraulic pump, and side-space for loader bracketry and plumbing in lieu of a starter-generator. I found that while the Vanguard and Honda's leaning cylinders tend to invade that space a bit, my hydraulic pump's location didn't have to move much in order to maintain that clearance. Back a year or so after I did the first assembly of this one, I actually considered relocating the hydraulic pump drive to behind the hydrostat, then putting a clutch at the engine-end that I could disengage just for starting, and then once running, engage. I didn't, though. I might dream up a way to do something like that on this machine... but not now. It starts okay cold, and I need it to push snow.

Another thing I did find... was that tire clearance to the frame, and to the loader bracket, and to the engine-mounted hydraulic pump... required careful attention. The 18-850x8 is a nice wide footprint that will keep the machine from sinking in really bad under a load... but because the tire is wider, it has a more pronounced scrub-radius, requires more wheel offset to get the tire's contact centerline closer to the kingpins... needs more caster and camber to turn nicely, and as a result of all this, requires more steering effort when the bucket is full... all this (and the really tight steering angles I get with my setup) it's possible for the axle to be swung up (tire going over a lump, in a tight corner) enough so that interferance with bracketry and frame need to be carefully monitored for. I don't have the Ackerman Angle calcs in my notes anywhere that I can find... but it can be simulated without numbers just using sidewalk chalk in a flat driveway... and a yardstick... which is sufficient precision for a garden-tractor when calculating toe-in with wider tires.

I've never looked at the construction up close, I always liked the size and shape of the Kwik-Way bucket... volumnous, suitable for plenty of snow. My bucket tends to fill fast, then overflow when moving snow drifts. Up-side is there's better visibility. Downside is that spillage winds up in lap, etc. Good thing is that I'll be making some more buckets... a rock sorting bucket, a trenching bucket, etc... so snow-type setup is on the horizon, and I may get really creative... dunno yet.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.
DaveKamp
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
City and State: LeClaire, Ia
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby Merk » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:18 am

My loader has a self leveling bucket system on it.
kw110.JPG

kw111.JPG


What you see in the pictures plus the frame work between the tractor and loader is all have.

The hydraulic pump for the loader will use the front PTO. My 149 starts fairly easy down to temps of 20 degrees.

I rather use a blade over a snow thrower or a loader for snow removal.

Long term I want to build a set of forks and a blade for my loader. Plans are to build a quick change system like they have on skid-big tractor loaders.

The 16-6.50-8 rib tires should work good in terms of floatation and steering. The rear tires will be 23-8.50-12 dual ag type tires. The inside tire on each side will be filled fluid. The spacer will be an IH front wheel weight off a letter series tractor. The ones I have weigh 50 pounds. I want to leave my Cannon Earthcavator on the rear. It will be a good counter weight when not in use. The duals should make the unit more stable.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Merk
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:24 am
City and State: Middle Point, Ohio 45863
First and Last Name: Dale Merkle

Re: Loader Build Help

Postby DaveKamp » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:13 am

Email me an address, Merk, I'll send you this... it'll give you enough parts to make a serious tie-rod...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.
DaveKamp
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
City and State: LeClaire, Ia
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp


Return to Custom Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest