Dozer turning brakes

[Paulf]

I'm in the process of "trying" to build a Cub Cadet dozer. I'm patterning it after my Magnatrac MT 2000. The Magnatrac uses external drum/band brakes for turning. I'd like to use Cub Cadet disk brakes instead, but all my Cub Cadets but one have internal brake rear ends. Here's what I have so far:

I'm wanting some pictures or information on Cub Cadet disk brakes. I saw a Model 1100 disk brake on Ebay that looked like it might fit a one inch diameter shaft with a quarter inch keyway. That would be perfect. I've also seen some later model disk brakes on Ebay that look like they bolt up with the standard rear wheel bolt pattern. I would have to make an adapter that would fit a one inch shaft with a keyway to use these, but I could make them work, I think. Any good pictures, measurements or discussion that would help me out would be greatly appreciated.

Just so you know, I have considered a front motorcycle disk brake, but would like to stick with the Cub Cadet theme since it's going to hopefully be a Cub Cadet dozer.

TIA for any help.

Paul

[Amigatec]

With the differential in the rearend, I don't see how it's going to turn. It will just go side to side with very little way to stop it. Most Dozers use a Spool for a carrier, and have clutches between the carrier and the final drives. The ones I've worked were Multi-Plate wet clutches, with a brake band on the outside. Some of your really old Dozers used dry clutches.

[dale campbell]

I don't think the dics brakes will work good enough for what you're planning...from my experience the internal brake works a lot better than 2 disc brakes dale c.

[Paulf]

Thanks for the input guys, but it will work. The Magnatrac uses a Peerless transmission with a differential and a 4 inch drum with an external band brake. I've used it without any problems for over 10 years. It's not something you'd want to do a lot of turning in your yard because it will tear up the sod, but it works without any problems.

Does anyone have dimensions, pictures, or information on a Cub Cadet disk brake that's not an integral part of the rear axle assembly. The only one that I have experience with was on an older model Cub Cadet 126 and the disk, hub and axle were all one piece. I'm wanting a disk that I can connect to a keyed shaft without having to saw the disk off.

[Paulf]

I guess I should do a better job of explaining how this will work. The smaller outer sprocket on each axle will drive a lower sprocket with a 2 to 1 reduction that will drive the tracks. You can see the setup in the bottom picture. The larger sprocket on each axle will drive a sprocket with a 4 to 1 reduction. I will also locate a disk brake on the shaft with this sprocket (the smaller sprocket) which will give the disk brake a 4 to 1 advantage. I haven't located that shaft yet so it's not shown in the picture. It will set forward of the axle that contains the large sprocket. With a disk brake located on each side of the transmission, I can stop the rotation of either side and cause the dozer to turn. As I said, it's the same setup as the Magnatrac and it works there with a small band brake. And, yes, I know that will double the speed of the side opposite the side that's stopped. It makes a noticeable difference on the Magnatrac, but it works. I wish I could get a picture, to show you the setup, but there's just not enough room on the Magnatrac to get a good picture. I hope this description helps. Again, thanks in advance for any help.

[Amigatec]

I don't have any experience with a Magnatrac, all my experience is with Caterpillar Dozers, IH Dozers, and M60 tanks. But it may work with a differential, I have never seen it done that way. I figured the Magnatrac was a Hydro drive.

How are you going to attach the track frames??

[Amigatec]

Also I might note here, Caterpillar uses a Planetary Final drive, some of your others brands use a double reduction final drive.

The Planetary Final drive is were Cat gets a lot of it's pushing power from, that and the fact that most Cats pull good at a lower RPM.

[Paulf]

Pat, if I understand what you're asking about the track frame, I'll just basically build a frame and set the Cub Cadet on top of it. It will be secured at the outer end of each axle housing and in the front where the original axle was. There will be a roller chain drive from the small sprocket on the transmission to another sprocket on the axle for the track (The 2 to 1 reduction). I had to narrow the rear end of the Cub Cadet by six inches to prevent the whole thing from becoming too wide. The Peerless transmission is 17 inches wide and I managed to narrow the Cub Cadet rear end to 16 inches. I should be able to continue to use the dimensions I get from the Magnatrac with the narrower Cub Cadet rear end.

Again, anyone have any information on disk brakes on Cub Cadets where the disk is not an integral part of the hub and rear axle? Is there such a thing? TIA

[mgonitzke]

The CCC-built 82 series on up had a disc that was held on by the wheel studs. The only other thing I can think of is the band brake on the O...I don't know how that is held on the axle, but that may be another option.

I can see why you want to do this using only OEM parts, but to me it would seem simpler just to create something that interfaces properly with your application instead of trying to use OEM stuff that isn't really the most feasible solution to the problem.

[Farmallgray]

Paul,
I don't quite understand what the big sprockets do.

As for the brakes, you could use the late model CC calipers off of an 82 series or Cyclops. For the rotors, it would probably be easier to cut a couple circles out of plate and weld them to a hub than to try to adapt the CC ones. The CC ones are offset and have a big hole in the center. As I recall you have lathes and mills at your disposal so that should be an easy job.

[Paulf]

Matt, you have a good point, but as you indicated, I'd just like to have as much CC parts on it as possible. That way it's more of a Cub Cadet dozer.

Todd, the big sprocket will drive a smaller sprocket on another shaft. That shaft will also have on it the disk brake. That gives the disk brake a 4 to 1 mechanical advantage over the rear axle. That's the way it is on the Magnatrac and that seems to work really well. I'm afraid if I put the disk right on the rear axle (where the large sprocket is) I would have no mechanical advantage and I'm not sure I could stop the axle and make a turn.

I do have access to a lathe and homemade cnc mill. But, it's just really appealing to me to use another Cub Cadet part on a Cub Cadet dozer.

Guys, thanks for all the discussion. It helps as I'm trying to figure everything out. I have a pretty good idea how I'm going to do everything, but it never hurts to have new suggestions. Any idea can be improved upon.

[jallen]

PAUL the older oliver crawlers used brakes to steer with. it was called differential steer

[BigMike]

Bryan,be careful what you wish for......my headache is just starting to ease from the last listening I gave to Dave
He has been working on setting up his machine shop and frequents the Practical Machinist site.

[Racenitro]

If you have room, modify a set of cub brake calipers and use the large sprokets as rotors....