My New Rattle Trap

[dag1450]

I picked this up today about 20 min from home. I have been thinking about a new mower for the boys this summer as i sold the 1811(not sure why).... I saw this on CL last night for $350 and went early this am. I thought it was a good deal for a running driving mowing 1650.....but when i got there he said there was a small drive-line vibration, so we settled on $225. Well i get it home and after some kids sports games i tore into the drive-line and found lots of worn parts. I have several different drive shafts from different quiet line tractors.....so i easily found all the parts needed and got it back together. All proud of my self.....i fire it up and it feels NO better!! SO...in disappointment i yank out the drive shaft and start it up only to find out it all in the engine....or rubber mounts which r new and look like factory or close to it. I did some quick reading on the interweb and people talk about tightening down till about two threads r showing on the motor mount bolts. Man i hope that helps!! I think i have been spoiled on the supers lately or at least the twin cylinders.lol It has been several years....but i know my 1450 was not this BAD!

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[dag1450]

Just some pics of all the work i did......for nothing!!

before

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worn pump coupler

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lubed everything i could

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worn engine mount

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all done...even had a new fan in stock.lol

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[dale campbell]

the 16 hp will have about 1/4 more vibration than a 14hp

[BigMike]

All the working Q/Ls I have had were great after a front and rear cradle upgrade.

[VScott]

the 16 hp will have about 1/4 more vibration than a 14hp

Reading my mind, Dale.

Dave, Looks like it was a good deal, especially if that "c" deck in the background came with it. I know that you've been through this all before, but don't forget to check the oil pan to cradle bolts. I have seen them strip out.

[dag1450]

Well............. Happy to report.....i loosened the motor mounts to about 2 threads showing above the lock nut and shes purring like a normal Quiet line! The mounts do look like new factory i think but yes harder than the old factory (nice and squishy) lol. Yes Mike i have seen the cradle upgrade....but that will b on the back burner for now. Vinny.... lets call that an ABC deck,idk.lol. A spindles and plate, B ?, C replacement shell. Im telling ya...the factory cub paint even on this c shell is horrable. Who ever was in charge of paint prolly in the late 80 and 90's sure made a mess of things!! This will need blasting asap! I love tinkering with this old stuff.....it takes u back to a simpler day. I had such fun messing w this this afternoon Couple little things ....removed the good taillights, i will install some other "knock offs". New none faded steering wheel, i could not believe it popped right off! Topped off the hytran...w good used stuff of course.lol I could not for the life of me get the front rims off! Who knows the trick to stuck front rims.....i think the weatherman Paul had this problem at some point a year ago? Also added my only good hood support and latch.....with factory rubber blocks. That really helps with the rattling.

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[VScott]

I never knew the rubber blocks were factory, good to know!

That seat sure looks good!

The paint dept. sure did leave a lot to be desired. I wonder if the metal wasn't prepped right, cheap paint, not much paint...who knows.

[JMotuzick]

I believe the paint issue of the late 1980s and early 1990s was poorly prepped metal with powder coat over It.....

[Klapatta]

Joe is right. One dealer I spoke with had nothing nice to say about the quality of the powder coat on the shells of that era. It was a new process at the time. He went so far as to say it was common to see it peeling off in sheets after just a year or two. He had mentioned there had been some sort of a recall at one time for them. But that's really a nice deck that would respond well to a complete blasting and repaint.
Your doing a nice job bringing your 1650 back up to par, good luck with It !

[SWilliams]

Yup. MTD was converting over to powder coating and discovered that solvent based paint prep doesn't work with powder. I know some of the folks who consulted with them on their powder lines and they tried to convince them of these issues. Basically MTD tried to cut a couple steps out of the cleaning cycle that you need for powder. They felt you didn't need them for solvent paints then you didn't need them for any paint. So they were taking raw stampings, running them through a simple oil/dirt removal spray wash and coating the parts. That works with solvents because one of the first steps they were doing was spraying the bare steel with an etching primer. That primer had enough acid in it that it created the mechanical bond for the paint to hold.
With powder you have no etching properties. The common way to get them is to use a multi-stage wash, First stage would be surfactant based cleaner to remove oil/dirt, then a clear water rinse, next either an acid or phosphate wash stage (or both with some materials) to create a surface that powder can adhere to. then a clear rinse. Heated tunnel to dry the parts and coat them while they are still warm. Skip that etch process and the powder will look fine, it will even pass adhesion tests while the powder is fresh. Let it age for about a month and it starts losing what bond it had.

[dag1450]

Thanks guys for that info on the powder coat. I thought it was paint. The smallest chip or pin hole would create the biggest mess as it would rust underneath. Got the deck all torn down......I have tried to remove powder coat before w my blaster and it did not do so well. I guess I will have to hunt down a cheap shop to do this. The last few decks I have put together......well everything the last few years, gets grease between any metal that is sandwiched. To stop this.lol This is mostly dirt but some is rust.

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[dag1450]

OK..my bubble burst a little when I started to dig the grass out of the underside of the deck. I had dreams of restoring this deck to near new.lol. Not now.....a couple rust spots r pretty bad under there and just took the wind out tof my sail. So I will still blast myself and give it a quick paint. I want to use something under the deck that will really hold up. I know the key is to remove all the existing rust......that will be very hard as the rust is in thick sheets. I chipped most but I know from experience an area might look tight but then it just flakes off later. This is too big for a vinager tank.....so what has anybody used for converting or neutralizing the rust? I have used the permitex stuff and did not care much for it. Idk On a positive note....I soaked the foot tread screws w my homemade brew....and they walked right out. Dave

[Tom Scott]

Dave - I'm gonna skip the knowledge I have of you just moving most of your beloved 1450 into the garage attic, only to go out and buy another QL...

So, instead, we'll talk rust... Saw an ad for "Evapo Rust", sold through many places, including Amazon. Amazon was the cheapest in a quick search I did; $23 per gallon, but a gallon is supposed to do a whole lot of cleaning.

Anyway, Evapo Rust is non-toxic, water based and can be re-used several times. Link here for company site: http://www.evaporust.com/index.html

Ideally, they intend you to use it as a bath that you submerse items in, but they have a link to a guy that used it on a car frame. Sprayed and brushed it on and used a drip pan to catch much of it to reuse.

From my experience with the powder coated 551, I think you will need a combination of methods. The early stages with sheets of coating need a scraper, and I like the 3M abrasive wheels that look like real coarse scotch brite with what seems like a lava rock coating. Then the grit blasting (not sand, real bad for lungs), then perhaps this Evapo Rust for the pitted areas. I don't like the conversion paints because if you don't clean enough rust, they trap rust underneath. If you clean the part up too much before painting the conversion paints can actually cause the clean metal to rust.

So, be a good guinea pig and try the Evapo Rust for us!

[dag1450]

....R u kidding me.....a scraper and "lava rock" on a drill! I dont pussy foot around like that, I hook up the air and start blasting!
Tom....send me the $25 bucks plus postage and a tooth brush and i will b the guinea pig. My nephew read your post....he said while dont u try "Rust-Ese", u know....from the movie "Cars" with Lighting McQueen. All kidding aside...i have heard of that stuff and im sure it works. I think i will try to build a vinegar tank. Let it soak in that for a few days then blast. I will keep u posted.
I still cant get that one front rim off!! Dave

[dag1450]

Well...i got the rim off....kinda. Had to pry the back of the rim and hit the bolt in the spindle and beat the rim at the same time, so i needed one of my teenage helpers. That got the rim off but left me with an inner bearing still stuck. Heated that...then soaked it some more.....more heat more soak.....more of more!! Then the outer race broke off. I was almost ready to dremal the dumb thing to split it but then it budged! more heat and more of more. GOT IT! I was almost ready to take the whole spindle and just throw it in the trash...i have plenty. WHO does not grease a spindle shaft before installing a wheel.......IH Cub Cadet that who. I dont think these rims have ever been off. Dave

[Tom Scott]

Dave - Glad you got your rim and bearing off. Sounds like you earned that one.

My 3M "spinning lava rock pad" was good for indoor winter work. I now have my second larger compressor installed, so I will be joining the blasting club this summer.

I will go halfway with you on the Evapo Rust... you spend the $25, and I will supply the other half, the toothbrush!

If you're blasting anyway, you may not need the chemicals. I stripped the underside of my 54" deck with the 3M spinning pads which still left some minor rust in the pitted areas. Coated with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer, then topcoated with Case IH yellow, and it survived a season of mowing very well. None of the primer lifted and even survived me scraping the deck with a plastic ice scraper after every mow. There are primers like this that are designed to coat a thin layer of well adhered rust and stay put.