Bad Gas

[ReicheP]

One of the members of the forum suggested not to leave plastic gas cans in the sun because it really shortens the life of the gas. Gas in the tank was treated with Stabil.

This past summer my 682/Honda GX610 sat virtually for months unused because of a lack of rain and no grass to mow. I hadn't replaced the side covers so the black gas tank had a good chance to bake! Well come leaf time the engine was terrible to start and would act as it if was running out of gas. Being too lazy to want to R&R the carb and clean the tank I gave the tank a heavy dose of fuel injection/gas cleaner and some new gas. Well one tank and no more starting or running trouble. It's been starting first crank all winter.

So if you suspect bad gas, sticky carb try running a decent dose of fuel cleaner through a tank before you pull every thing apart.

[Farmallgray]

This stuff is supposed to be the cat's a$$ for those kind of problems;

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

I haven't tried it yet myself but it is flying off the shelf at work. We can hardly keep it in stock.

[Jeff in Pa]

This stuff is supposed to be the cat's a$$ for those kind of problems;

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

I haven't tried it yet myself but it is flying off the shelf at work. We can hardly keep it in stock.

That was recommended to me from a good friend who I get my boating supplies from. It works pretty good, I've been using it since last spring.

[vince_o]

Heres so bad gas And I didnt have to go to tacco bell!

[ReicheP]

Here you go.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/star-tron- ... z--4458661

Is this stuff better than Stabil?

[J Hayes]

Hey Vince glad ya growed yer fingerprint back - since ya glued it to that deer horn !
you must have hacked my computer cuz I can't find the pic as proof.

Seriously
Is that ice or corrosion on your finger ?
If ice that may prove the theory that the ethanol does indeed attract water

[jbagley]

I have been using Star tron since Oct.2010,it has made a big difference in power,better starting and mpg.
Jim

[mmzullo]

I thought you gauys where talking about Chumlee again!! I've been using the marine grade stab. But maybe I should change also.

[ReicheP]

Mike from what I read the marine grade Stab is fine. Where do you buy it?

[Merk]

I've never had any problems with regular Sta-Bil . Been using it for 6 years.

[ReicheP]

Merk,

Looks like for the limited use of our cubs, compared to the family car the regular Stabil isn't perfect.

Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment & Performance Improver contains DOUBLE the corrosion preventers and more than FOUR TIMES the fuel system cleaner than in Regular STA-BIL to prevent against corrosion and deposit build up in Marine Engines.

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/default.aspx

Their marine grade isn't available here while the Star Tron is. Stabil was being used and it didn't do it's job this summer for me. Yep it was under nasty conditions.

[mmzullo]

Paul,
I get it from Wally World. I always put a cap full of MMO and stab-il in each gas fill up. Not for the gas going bad but to keep things clean.

[Merk]

by ReicheP
Merk,

Looks like for the limited use of our cubs, compared to the family car the regular Stabil isn't perfect.

No product will work if you have poor fuel storage habbits like you did with your 682.

Odds are the fresh gas is what made you Cub run better since you added new gas along with a heavy dose of fuel injection/gas cleaner. More than likely the tank on your Cub didn't have very much fuel in it when you filled it up.

I never tried Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment. I don't see a need to. I'm trying to understand why I need to spend more money on a product when I have something that works now. Most if not all small motor manufactures recommend the owner to use a 30 day gas rule, a good grade of fuel and good fuel storage program.

[ReicheP]

Good points Merk, but if an ounce of Star Tron keeps me running around with a siphon hose i'll send a few dollars.

[Merk]

Paul,
Odds are you would have the same problem with your 682 last summer if you used Star Tron instead of Sta-Bil.

[dmcdowell]

The shelf life of all this gas is very short. Best answer is to make the cubs work. Even the "summer" duty machines get an hour a month burning condensation out of the sheds and then fresh fuel added after. I have never really heard a negative thing about stabil but I don't use it. I just go out of my way to get the girls some exersice one way or the other. Just my 2 cents

[Coop]

Ah.the old gas debate...I used to work at a Stihl dealer, was a factory certified mechanic,( yea, I know, big deal), anyway, Stihl told us that any 2 cycle gas not used after 30 days should not be used. By that time, it has broken down to the point that there will be problems getting the engine started, peak power will not be attainable. I have seen gas break down in 2 weeks in the summer months due to the higher temps. Ethanol treated gas is the worst, the ethanol attracts moisture, when it does that, the octane is displaced, and the gas gets weak. Reqular Stabil is basically a wax, it is supposed to create a film on top of the gas to stop evaporation. Only problem with that is if you have a poly gas can, some vapors will pass right thru the poly, octane escapes anyway. For me, I buy the higest octane gas I can, and try not to buy any more gas than I am going to use in a months time.

Coop

[ReicheP]

Paul,
Odds are you would have the same problem with your 682 last summer if you used Star Tron instead of Sta-Bil.

I'm not disagreeing with you Merk. I started this post stating my gasoline problems and how easy I solved them by using a tank of new gas and a heavy dose of fuel injection cleaner. The Stabil issue came up later in the discussion.

My reason for the original post was to say since starting issues crop up around here all the time, rather than pulling a carb/tank etc. to try a fresh tank and some FI cleaner. Worked for me!

[wdeturck]

I find most of the time just the GAS left in bowl goes bad and isn't able to fire for start but the gas in the tank will be usable. If I think I have bad gas I use a squirt bottle and get it running till the gas in the tank allows it to run. If that don't work than I take the bowl off and work back to the tank.

[dmcdowell]

Since I live out here in boaters world I can tell you this much. Many large fuel capacity boats (150-200) boats are stored chock full. Less capacity to evaporate. Marinas will not even fill older Bertrams unless the plastic tanks have been replaced. Marine mechanics are cleaning and maintaining the fuel systems from the filter forward in the spring claiming the filters will deal with the tank problem. My "ethanol equipped" Mercruiser 5.7 is a horror show between the filter and jets every spring due to the minute amounts of fuel left behind at witherization. ??? Why not run the carb out of gas you may ask? In the salt water application it is more important to Fogg the engine at shut down versus running the carb empty. I guess with ethenol its the solution to pollution is dillution. Whats it aid to in the discussion? Bottom line is ethonol is a pain in the neck and our fuel is far worse off with it. I totally agree with the use the higher octane fuel due to octane depletion over time theory. The boats due run fine in the spring with the larger amount of over winter fuel storage deal though. This is a very helpful discussion. Every little tip helps.

[Racenitro]

Several things happen with today's gasoline.

1: The ethanol is a magnet for water/moisture
2: The Gasoline that is vented to the atosphere will loose 50% of its ability to detonate/burn very quickly

If you want to witness the reduction of gasoline's components...take a cup of gasoline in the summer and hold it up to the sunlight and you can watch the vapors exiting the gasoline. THese vapors are the various components of the gasoline disappearing.

When I have run a Gas Chromatograph of fresh gasoline and the do the same after it has sat for a day or two exposed to the atmoshphere, you would be very surprised to see just how much of the gasoline's variou scomponents have either disappeared or are drastically reduced.

You can read the article in Naitonal Dragster where I talk about the handling of gasoline.

There is only one good way to store gasoline....Store it in a SEALED STEEL container in a cool place. The red plastic containers are no better than storing it with the top off the can...Gasoline breathes through the red wal-mart containers...some fo the components in gasoline interact with the componets that make up the container.

I can make C-25 Racing gasoline junk in less than 10 minutes...even in a csealed container.
I have put C-25(The gasoline Pro Stock Racers use) in a glass vial, seal it and placed it in the direct sun light. 10 minutes later it is JUNK...it looks like milk full of curds....
Any questions...
I love to see service stations selling RACING Gasoline from a pump....what a joke..2-problems---Water and air!

I have C-25 that I have stored for 8 years in a sealed steel container at 70 degrees....it still is good.
I have gasoline stored in small containres in my fridge...for years as part of an experiment...still good after 10 years....

The marine sta-bil may be the same as the new ethanol friendly sta-bil in the blue bottle....not sure but it definitely indicates it is for gasoline containing ethanol.

[dmcdowell]

Ya, my 5gal red containers fatten up to about 6. In the sunlight. I have also noticed some of the hot rod guys are buying 55gallon drums of the hot stuff. What is interesting what Frank says about temp. and what I said about boats storing large amounts as far as storing full is the fact that if the boat is out of the water its winter and 2 in the summer the boat is sitting in 65 degree water keeping the fuel cool.

[Jim S]

Vince, are you sure that's not anti-freeze in that bowl ?

[Tom Scott]

I only buy 93 and put Stabil and MMO in every load I buy. When I am using the fuel quickly, I know the Stabil and higher octane is not needed, but I never know when something is going to just sit awhile. I got tired of trying to remember what needed to have Stabil and premium added to it. Just not enough total money to worry about. Now when I stop using something, I know it already has some protection.

I add the MMO to all of it because the ethanol reduces some of the gasoline's lubricating properties. I believe that the MMO restores that and then some. I also believe that based on the anecdotal evidence on this site and others that MMO does good things for the air cooled engines and is a good carbon reducer.

I let some equipment like chainsaws sit with fuel in them for up to six months and they start up just fine with this system.

I am guilty of the red plastic cans, but they are kept out of the sun in an attached garage with nearly constant temps. I typically don't have any gas in these storage containers for more than two or three months. Usually gets used quicker.

[JohnathanB]

Funny this convestion ,
I came home yesterday from work and had about 4 inches to remove.Fired up the 1450 and went to work but she ran terrible didnt understand why
The gas was fresh,just purchased two days ago..So I put some HEET in the fuel tank.
this morning had another 3-4 inches to removed and she ran great!
Guess even if the gas is new ya still can get wet gas...
Gunna get some MMO and start using that seems its worth it
regards,
johnathanB

[vince_o]

Ugly

Yes corosion

Jim S

Nope I was there when Franks son opened the carb. I said WAIT I need to take a pic of it. The smell was so bad It lingered in the shop for days and we were kinda sick/.

[mmzullo]

Johnathan,
I just found a gallon of MMO at TSC. I've been buying quarts at wally world. I've been using it in everything. It goes quick.

[vince_o]

i stopped in at the mower shop today and was talking with Frank and we were reading the site. This is what hes using in the shop.

Also he took my corner of the shop and rearanged it! Well he owns it LOL

[Merk]

Look at question #12 in Kohler FAQs http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm.
Kohler recomends against using fuel additives.

Ethanol Shield claims it is a fuel additive.
Star Tron claims to be a fuel additive.
2 products I wouldn't use.

There is no substitute for good fuel maintance. Good fuel storage pratices such as 30 day fuel rule, fuel store in a container that you can seal, fuel store in a cool dry place and use a product that is only a fuel stablizer are better than using a fuel additive.

I've been doing the above fuel storage pratices for 7 plus years without a fuel related probem.

[TWheaton]

Yeah Merk, but proper fuel maintainance some times falls by the wayside when other things
get in the way that have a higher priority. In MHO it's the same old solution, do what works .
I am still able to buy a non-ethanol "gas" , it's pricey, but I don't have problems with it.