Solenoid or ignition

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Grant
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Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

Is there an easy way to tell if it's my ignition switch or solenoid that has gone bad? My 1450 won't start unless I jump the starter from the battery. I can get it to crank by 'jumping' the posts on the solenoid. I don't have a spare ignition switch to swap and test. Thanks!

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mgonitzke
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by mgonitzke »

Remove the ignition switch and use your multimeter to see if the right contacts are connected to each other when the key is in each position, particularly the start position.
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ksanders
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by ksanders »

An easy way to rule out the solenoid is to see if the small wire has power getting to it when the key is in the "start" position. If there's power to the solenoid, the key is doing it's job and the solenoid is bad. If there's no power, the solenoid is not the problem and it's either the switch or a safety in between somewhere.
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Farmallgray
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Farmallgray »

On a QL the problem could also be in the pto switch or the brake pedal safety switch.
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topper
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by topper »

common for QL, hold clutch down, turn key to on, and wiggle pto switch on-off, good possible will start
Francis

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Racenitro
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Racenitro »

Easy way to check solenoid....jump from batery side of solenoid to the spade or small wire. if it does not activate starter then the solenoid is bad. Easier than checking for power from key. If solenoid works then you need to check the three other possibilities...ignition switch, PTO switch and Brake safety switch.

Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

Thanks for the replies. I've toggled the PTO switch and checked the brake safety switch. I get the 'click' when the PTO is engaged which I believe shows that the PTO safety switch is working and I've cleaned the brake safety switch as well. I'm going to focus on the solenoid at this point.

Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

No reading on the multimeter on the small screw/wire connection. Looks like a bad ignition switch. Are they easily available at NAPA or non-CC source (no local CC dealers)?

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Dave C
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Dave C »

grant,

There are a ton of different switch configurations out there and the majority of the aftermarket ones are for mag ignition.... not to say that stens might have the one u need but its a crapshoot.
i do know that they are available from cub cadet i think around 40 bucks.
used ones are a crap shoot
call scott at madsons or ken at carter they can drop one in da mail faster then u can say supercalfristicexpalidosious!
dave
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Trebor
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Trebor »

Hey Dave,
Jeepers, we can't even read "supercalfristicexpalidosious!" much less say it! But, kidding aside, thanks for all you contribute to the site and its users, including tips on how and from whom to retrieve the goodies that we need to keep our toys going.
“May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you are going, And the insight to know when you have gone too far”.

Klapatta
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Klapatta »

Grant, as Dave pointed out there are many types of aftermarket switches out there, I myself would go with the OEM type switch to avoid the whole Murphy's Law syndrone.
The part number that I am coming up with is IH-61524-C3 and it should be about thirty dollars.
I think there is a real good chance that Better Power Equipment in Waterbury would have it right on the shelf in stock and they would be able to mail it to you in a day or two. Their phone number is 1-800-244-5664. Please be sure to double check this part number with them as there are at least four types that I know of.

jchabot
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by jchabot »

Dave C wrote:grant,

There are a ton of different switch configurations out there and the majority of the aftermarket ones are for mag ignition.... not to say that stens might have the one u need but its a crapshoot.
i do know that they are available from cub cadet i think around 40 bucks.
used ones are a crap shoot
call scott at madsons or ken at carter they can drop one in da mail faster then u can say supercalfristicexpalidosious!
dave
What no spell check? Proper spelling is "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" :P :lol: :P
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Dave C
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Dave C »

friggin jim has to correct me lol so jim u comming to kent or colchester.... kents starting tommarow and colchester the following weekend And Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious isnt in my spelcheck? does mime not werk cerrectly?
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J Hayes
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by J Hayes »

jchabot wrote:
Dave C wrote:grant,

supercalfristicexpalidosious!
dave
What no spell check? Proper spelling is "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" :P :lol: :P
ain't spelt rong the way he said it, --- tongue got in front of his eye teeth and couldn't see what he was sayin. :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:
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Dave C
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Dave C »

CUT IH-61524-C2 USE IH-61524-C3 SWITCH-IGNITIO
Alternatives
CUT IH-61524-C3 SWITCH-IGNITION 18.49

hmmm cheaper then the others! i should prob buy 2 or 3 for the shelf... ahh next week
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Klapatta
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Klapatta »

Dave,
Between the fiscal year ramping up my throat and TWO shows this weekend at the same time (Kent and Ludlow) I gotta make some sacrifices and skip Kent this year. I will be lookin forward to seeing everyone at Zagray, that's for sure! The Ludlow show is only a 22 mile haul for me and it's always a super event, we will be camping there starting Friday night. I wonder what my supervisor will say when I tell him I'm leaving at 1:30 Friday afternoon :?:
Please say hello to all the Crosley gang for me at Kent!
DSCN0915.JPG
I can tell that your spell checking has improved greatly- you spelled 18.49 correctly! :lol:

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Willy
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Willy »

Where are these 2 shows you guys are talking about?

-Willy

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Dave C
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Dave C »

http://www.ctamachinery.com/ kent ct this weekend
http://www.qvea.org colchester ct next weekend
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Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

ksanders wrote:An easy way to rule out the solenoid is to see if the small wire has power getting to it when the key is in the "start" position. If there's power to the solenoid, the key is doing it's job and the solenoid is bad. If there's no power, the solenoid is not the problem and it's either the switch or a safety in between somewhere.
I haven't had a chance to get around to this project for a number of weeks. I bypassed the brake safety switch and am getting power to the small wire at the solenoid. I don't know if the switch is bad but I just thought I would remove a variable. I even swapped solenoids and still can't get a start (maybe two bad solenoids in my garage? neither is new) I could jump either solenoid with a wrench across the posts and crank the starter direct from the battery.

Maybe I'll check NAPA for a new solenoid.

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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by JMotuzick »

Grant
with 12v at the small terminal and 12v at the large terminal from the battery you have a bad solenoid. It is very possible that the used one you installed is also bad. I would check napa for one form a 60's mustang and only use 1 of the 2 small terminals. Really any one would work but the 60's ford one was around $15 last check.

Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

JMotuzick wrote:Grant
with 12v at the small terminal and 12v at the large terminal from the battery you have a bad solenoid. It is very possible that the used one you installed is also bad. I would check napa for one form a 60's mustang and only use 1 of the 2 small terminals. Really any one would work but the 60's ford one was around $15 last check.
The small term. doesn't get 12v, more like 2.5 when the ignition is in the start position. Full 12v at the large post. Not sure if that makes a difference (I know very little about electrical stuff :? ).

Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

Now I'm completely lost! Tried swapping the ignition switch, nothing. Bypassed the brake safety switch, nothing. Just tried a new OEM solenoid, still nothing! Before you ask, yes the battery is charged (and I've jumped it).

Here's the deal...lights work, PTO engages (if I flip the ignition with the PTO switch on, I hear the click at the PTO), fuses are good, hour meter working, can jump across the solenoid posts, can jump right to the starter post. What am I missing??? :x Arrggggghhhhh.

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Jeff in Pa
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Jeff in Pa »

Grant,
Here's a wiring diagram from this site's gallery for your 1450

Image

Verify that the wiring is correct.

Jeff
125 & 125 with hydraulic lift

Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

MADNESS!!

I ended up parking my 1450 for the winter and put the plow blade on the 1250. Snow is finally melting and I figured it was time to deal with the 1450. I jump started it with a wrench on the solenoid posts yesterday. Once it was running I shut it down and then it would start again with the key. Flippin' gremlins!! :evil: I'm sure I have a short somewhere, now it's just a matter of finding where it is. :?

rweaver
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by rweaver »

I have a 1872 here that wont start the first time by the key but I jump the soliniod one time and it works all season dont ask me why but thats how it does been doing it for 2 years now

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Jlaws
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Jlaws »

Grant , I've got a 1450 that does that occasionally . I've found that my PTO switch must be dirty , because if I wiggle it while turning the key it'll start. Doesn't do it often , usually when its sat an extended period and usually just the first time I try to start it.
I see a lot of cub cadets while going down the tracks , its a shame I can't pull over and ask about them .

Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

The 1450 wouldn't start again today so I decided to swap out for the new solenoid just to make sure it wasn't a finicky old one. Still nothing. I've got 12v to the post with 2 wires (direct from battery) and nothing at the second post. Nothing at the starter either. Made sure it's not the PTO (again) as well. I realize my new solenoid could be shot, but what are the chances!! Any other step by step ideas on what to check next?

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Dave C
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Dave C »

Grant wrote:Thanks for the replies. I've toggled the PTO switch and checked the brake safety switch. I get the 'click' when the PTO is engaged which I believe shows that the PTO safety switch is working and I've cleaned the brake safety switch as well. I'm going to focus on the solenoid at this point.
Not true, that pto switch is a multifunction switch and has 2 functions first primary is to connect power to the pto.. the second is to prevent you from cranking the engine if the pto is engaged by opening the 2 pins that connect the ignition switch to the starter solonoid... when the switch is off it "closes" that part and completing the circuit.... well the seat switch is also in the mix there.
Bottom line yes the switch could be bad i have seen several and i think i had a similair problem with my 1650. you also may have some bad connections its hard to tell cause they are in the plastic boot. everything must have a shinney copper look.
You said there was 2.5 volts at the small wire on the soloniod thats telling me you have a poor connections somewhere
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Grant
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Grant »

Dave C wrote:You said there was 2.5 volts at the small wire on the soloniod thats telling me you have a poor connections somewhere
Thanks for the reply, Dave. I swapped the PTO switch with another and still have nothing, but your comment about the wire ends being hidden in the plastic boots got me to start checking them all. Sure enough, one was loose in the boot at the ignition. I made sure it pressed back onto the tab and VROOM! I need to remember to KISS! :oops:
Last edited by Grant on Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dave C
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Re: Solenoid or ignition

Post by Dave C »

I would say u gotz a bad connector then.... either A start taking the connectors apart and wire brushing them, both the connectors on the switches and the connectors themselves, start at the KEy switch and work your way to the soloniod checking for +12 every step of the way.... just the slightest corrosion will cause it to not make contact. I am actually in the Telephone data and fiver optic trade so wires are my thing.... i have seen it all just the smallest drop of water will cause the corrosion to begin turn green and prevent any electrical connection. and meanwhile all looks well!
PS the connectors come out of the pastiv with a very small flathead screwdriver, its hard to expain but once u see it apart you will completely understand.... you will have to bend the tab out slightly before u reinstall it into the boot.
It might just be time for a new harness depending on what it looks like.
but it seems you have changed everything else
dave
Trying to save cubs... one at a time.......

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