1650 motor not running right

[DougK109]

Hi all. Got a question for ya. First some background.
My girlfriend bought this tractor about a month ago off of Ebay, not running. The engine was sposed to be rebuilt, all in spec (ya know the story), but he couldn't get it running. I know, red flags waving. Any how, we got it home and tried turning the motor over, I had to use a pry bar to turn it over (great start). Then we found the engine wasn't bolted down?? Whats going on here?? Someone in the past ran to long of bolts in the aluminum pan at one time and stripped all the holes out and actually pushed some of the pan up so it wouldn't fit right and leaked. Taking the motor apart we found about 1" of one oil control ring was bent up over the piston, gee, don't know why it was hard to turn over. The rod looked brand new, until we pulled the piston assembly out and it looks like someone took a file (I don't really know what it was) to the bearing surface on the rod end, not around the circumference, but front to back (the cap looked brand new though??), oh boy, here we go. New rings, the cylinder was not messed up bad, luckily it wouldn't run and ruin the walls. Honed the cylinder and checked all clearances and all looked like we were set. Bought a used oil pan (had to sacrifice a Deere for that) checked the valve clearances, point gap, took apart the carb and cleaned and checked it. Got motor bolted in, gassed up and went about starting it. Now the engine hardly still turned over, hard to believe the starter was shot (all burned up inside from being over worked trying to start it before). Put my spare starter on and fired it up. Got the motor to idle beautiful, but it wont run past idle. I thought the main jet was messed up so I got my spare carb out and put it on. The tractor still ran exactly the same trying to tune it, cant be that. It sounds like timing is way off or something, it bucks, sputters, and carries on. Cleaned and rechecked the points, right on where I had them set. Rechecked valve clearance, still on. Check coil, all checks out fine. Tried another coil I had laying around, just in case, same thing still. Recheck wiring, don't see anything wrong. While running the tractor my girlfriend says "there's a bit of oil cumming out of the front of the motor". Oh geez, now what. The kid that "rebuilt" the motor put the front oil seal the whole way on the crank and was spinning with the crank. I was able to take my small picks and pull it out by the outside of the seal and put it in place. Back to the running problem, I started thinking more major issue. Started thinking the timing between the crank and the cam is one tooth off, that has to be it. I got the engine apart right before I went to work, damn, the marks are right on. So here's the problem, I am almost out of ideas. I believe when it is running and try bringing up the rpms there is a tiny bit of gas mist being pushed out of the carb when its carrying on. I am going to do some more checks tomm if I got time, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the long post, but figure the more info I give ya the better. Thanks all.

[mgonitzke]

Setting the ignition timing by gapping the points rarely gets the timing right...try this. It sounds like the timing is advanced too far.

[wdeturck]

If the timing doesn't make it right and you changed the carb it might be the governor set correctly or tit's broken

[bperegrine]

A condenser will make an engine buck, spit and kick if is bad. Wont let it wind up but will usually start and idle fine.

[DougK109]

Well, while the engine was still apart, I looked inside and did not find anything out of the ordinary. Put it back together and check timing as to what Matt listed. I couldn't believe how far off the timing was off from the timing mark verses measuring the gap!! Matt, thank you, it works great now. I will never measure the point gap again for timing after seeing that.

[HydroHarry]

Doug - glad you got her running.

Matt -
thanks for posting your static method. It sounds similar to what I've seen described to use for a small hp lawn mower engine where the points are under the flywheel. I am wondering how accurate it actually is. Have you gone back and checked it with a timing light on several you've done?

Hydro Harry
Old Cubs Never Die (but their timing does slip)

[Racenitro]

You can use a buzz box...(Old Fuel Dragster Racing Device) Buzzer with battery and leads to set mag with. Will do the same thing. Buzzes when points are closed and no buzz when open. tells you exactly when electrical contact is lost.

[Farmallgray]

Harry,
I have static timed a few. It does change slightly when you re-check them with a light. On one of mine it was enough that it was harder to start when static timed compared to with a light.