1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

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eplummer
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1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Hi Everyone,
Due to poor hydro performance and visual inspection I started the trunion repair. Slow process thus far have only pulled the fenders and cleaned things up. But this is what I have noticed with further inspection. All fan blades broken, rearward rubber engine snubbers appear to be failing , wear mark on oil filter under flex joint. Is it feasable that the failing engine mounts have changed the angle of the engine and therefore the shaft, and would that change in angle be significant enough to drop the fan so the blades hit on the bolts and the flex joint would rub on the oil filter??? :dontknow:
Thanks for any input
Eric

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ksanders
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by ksanders »

Not so much the motor dropping as much as it moving up and down since the iso mounts aren't tight and doing their job anymore, but yes you're correct. Another cause might be worn coupler bushings at the motor and rear end that keep the driveshaft in place allowing the driveshaft to move around more. Not a lot of room between the filter and flex joint so it doesn't take much to hit the filter.
From the first Original to the last x82 Series... you can't beat an IH Cub Cadet!!!

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

What is the preferred way to check the bearings? Or could it be that they are probably original equipment and if the engine is out to do the mounts they should be replaced anyway?

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Paul B
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by Paul B »

Since most people continued to use the tractors after the engine mounts failed, if the mounts are shot, the driveshaft bushings, and probably the driveshaft, are too. Yes, the bronze bushings will wear the steel driveshaft.
May you always have as many landings as you do takeoff's.........

Ben Morong
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by Ben Morong »

My 1650 was like that when I got it. I pulled the engine, the lower rubber iso mounts were gone, the plastic fan blades were gone, and the trunion was bad. I replaced the aluminum oil pan that had worn down into the iso mount rails, did the upgrade to make the rails into a cradle, put the upper mounts on the bottom and got NAPA sway bar mounts to replace the upper ones, and replaced the broken plastic fan with a metal one off an old 125. It was tricky getting the cradle/mounts/bolts/engine back in, but after I took it apart the second or third time it all went back together -- a learning process. I didn't do anything else with the drive train except repair the trunion (didn't know about replacing driveshaft bushings) but it's a whole heck of a lot better than when I got it. You're not far from me. If you need some help and can get up this way stop in and check out mine.
Cub Cadet Originals -- Ayuh! (and a couple of 124's, 125's, and a 1650 -- Yep!)

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Thanks Ben and everyone that has weighed in. The plan was to get the trunion fixed so I could use the snow thrower on the tractor this winter. It seems I will have to re-evaluate my time line and $. On the one hand frustrating to find out there are other issues, the other hand...I am anxious to get into the project.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Made some progress on the 1650 trunionenginemountsfan repair. All the linkage is out. I think the next step will be to pull the engine. Win the lottery then order some parts!

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

One more thing I need advice on. The damper plate is not sliding off the shaft. I have removed the snap ring. It looked more like a fish hook shape than round. I have tried gently tapping the plate off but that does not seem to be persuading it any. Maybe some pb blaster and some more patients??? Heat would probably help but I am leary of damaging the seals in the hydro.
Thanks for help.
Eric

wdeturck

Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by wdeturck »

I think a piece of the snap ring is still in the slot.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

I guess I will check that out next. It appeared that the snap ring came off in one piece. It was oddly shaped but both eyes are there. I will try to attach a picture of the ring to see if that sheds any light.
Thanks
Eric
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wdeturck

Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by wdeturck »

When I was working on my Hydro(149) I had that plate off and on so many times I quit using that snap ring. I found 1/2" axle nuts(the ones that push on). I would get a couple small wedges and put pressure behind the plate as there may be a burr on the slot or end of shaft. Keep soaking it.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Not much forward progress on the 1650, the damper plate still won't come off the shaft. I think there is some rust that is holding it up. I had difficulty with the pin on the shaft assembly also. That was solved with PB blaster though. I bought some permatex rust devolving gel. I am going to give that a try. Anybody have experience with that product?
Thanks
Eric

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

The damper plate finally came off the shaft. Lots of PB blaster and time. I ended up gently using some wedges and pressing it off. On to pulling the engine and getting the engine mounts replaced.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

I was able to get some time in on the 1650 yesterday. Hood/headlights off, various wires disconnected etc. Wasn't it dirty! I am enjoying the learning process but wonder if I will know when I get in over my head. The top front engine mounts looked to be in good shape. The bottoms looked destroyed. Also the wire to the electric pto is bare in a few spots. One spot on the middle near the starter and a few inches of bear wire showing near the plug that goes into the pto. It was operating as it should before my project started, any advise on how to not break it if it ain't broken?
Thanks
Eric

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Put a few hours in on the 1650 today and need some more experienced advice before I go further. I got the tank off and the 4 upper mounts out. When I pull the engine, should there be 4 mounts that look like the 4 I took out? :dontknow: Judging from the pictures that seems unlikely, I think that that chunk in front of the visible mount in the lower image is what is left of the lower mount, as it remained in place after the top mount was removed.
snubbers.png
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snubberisomount.png
snubberisomount.png (95.28 KiB) Viewed 12716 times
I also have a question about removing the bolts of the flex coupling, it looks like the heads will hit the screen of the flywheel cover before they will come out. Do I have to drive the pin out that holds the steel coupler to the shaft, slide the steel and flex couplers towards the rear then take out the bolts. And at that point the engine should be able to be lifted out????
Thank you again for all the help available on this great site!
Eric

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Tim DeLooza
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by Tim DeLooza »

Eric, Yes, there is supposed to be four rubber mounts like what was on the topside of the cradle on the bottom. What your picture shows is common, the rubber splits/cracks and falls out. I think it is going to be easiest for you to pull the engine with out the cradle rails attached. There are (or is supposed to be) four bolts threw the cradle rails into the oil pan. Two are behind the front axle cross member and are easy to get to. The other two you will need to jack the font of the tractor up and tip the axle form side to side to get at the other two bolts. I use a small shallow socket and a small ratchet for these two because there isn’t much space. On the flex disk you have two bolts to the drive shaft and two carriage bolts to the engine coupler. Remove the two nuts on the engine coupler and leave the flex disk attached to the drive shaft. Once they are out and your cables and wires are disconnected you can pull the engine and then work on the cradle.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Thanks Tim,
You sure are right that there is not much room! Although I read the information in the forum many times I didn't realize the cradle was bolted to the frame independently from the engine mounts but now it makes sense. The knowledge I have gained from this site is invaluable and has saved a lot of :banghead: ! Could things be so out of whack that the cradle bolts that go into the oil pan are flush to the frame not allowing a wrench to get a hold on them?
Thanks a ton for your helpful knowledge.
Eric

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Tim DeLooza
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by Tim DeLooza »

Eric, Sure the cradle and mounts being gone like yours are could make it harder to get the oil pan bolts out. You could also find that they’re not even there any more (got loose and vibrated out). Ether way a regular combination wrench probably isn’t going to work to get the front two out.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Hey Tim,
With some perseverance and only one incident of knuckle bashing I got all 4 bolts loose. The amount of grease and grime down there was unbelievable. I hope I can get the engine out this weekend. Thanks again for your help. I will try and get some pictures posted too.
Eric

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Hi Everyone,
After a long hiatus I am back to work on the 1650, as the 1811 is in a bad place. Have ordered some replacement ISO mounts and and hydro fan. Wondering if I should replace the snubbers as well. They are original to the tractor and are worn or compressed to an angle, do they come that way new? Or, does that mean they have been used up? The picture is kind of lousy but advice appreciated.
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mortten
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by mortten »

They are probably worn due to engine movement from the bad ISO's. I'd replace them while you're at it. Don't loose the little brass shims. That's how you adjust the snubbers.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Thanks for the input. Just got the email that the snubbers have shipped! Here are a few more questions that have come up...Are the original ISO mounts formed around a metal washer or something similar? I was weeding through the old smashed mounts and there were some pieces that looked like washers that were covered in a similar material as the mounts. But didn't see anything in the diagrams, and all metal inserts are accounted for too. The other question I have is about the bolts that go through the engine rails into the oil pan. I have all 4, all 4 have star washers but 2 of them have a larger, heavier washer on them. Am I missing 2 washers or did I put them on the wrong bolts.
Thanks for any input.

Eric

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Hi All,
I was able to get some cub time yesterday and got the engine rails back in the 1650. Slow but steady progress. Still have to torque the nuts and shim the snubbers, but with any luck will drop the engine back in today.
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dag1450
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by dag1450 »

I picked up a 1650 couple years ago. Felt a bad vibration so I went through the drive line with no change to the vibe. Stumbled on some talk about leaving the rubber cradle mounts almost loose. Tighten down so only two threads stick out above the nuts. This was my Problem and now it feels better
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Engine is back in the 1650 and driveline connected. Torqued the new ISO mounts/bolts to 20ft lbs which was pretty close to the 2 threads showing. Will try and make throttle/carb/choke connections later today. Choke linkage is missing from the stash of other parts that were removed 4 plus years ago. I am sure I put it some place special where I wouldn't lose it!

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Engine in the 1650 started and ran yesterday for the first time after being reinstalled after cradle upgrade, ISO mount replacement (after 4 years)etc. Getting the damper springs back in and damper plate on seems to be for difficult than I expected. Can anyone give me some insight so I can get this old iron back to work. Thanks

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dag1450
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by dag1450 »

Gosh.... Isn't it just a snap ring that holds that plate on? What's not going together? Give us a couple more clues... What's giving the trouble...
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

I figured out my problem with the springs....I used jb weld to adhere a plate on top of the trunion slot but it is to thick so the forward, upper corner of the cutout in the damper plater is hitting against it when I move it back and forth. So there is not enough room to put the springs in. :oops: Looking at things in daylight makes a huge difference! Will try and take a bit off with a grinder tomorrow.

eplummer
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by eplummer »

Pretty successful cub weekend. The 1650 starts and moves under her own power for the first time in many years. Still need to make alot of adjustments to put it back to work. The throttle cable is being uncooperative and the engine really hammers a single time before it starts. Could that be a timing issue? I replaced the points and condenser and did set the timing but being the first time I have ever done it I am sure it is not dialed in. Ironically the "repair" I made to the trunion slot that, initiated this whole project,came undone and I think that is causing some difficulty getting neutral adjusted properly. Getting the brake/clutch pedal spring reattached only took 3 tries.

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dag1450
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Re: 1650 -broken cooling fan/iso mounts?

Post by dag1450 »

Sounds like u r moving forward again.
I think u said u epoxied the trunnion repair on? That stinks it broke off. Probably weld would b best or I think I saw one time someone was able to screw it down.
That hammer u speak of....My 127 does something like that when the battery gets low. But that's a whole different starter set up....So not sure if it would be the same or not. Just something to keep in mind.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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