front pto set screw removal

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roadstar30
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First and Last Name: robert lindstadt
Location: east nporthport, NY

front pto set screw removal

Post by roadstar30 »

So whats the best to remove the set screws that hold the pto on????
I been spraying with wd 40 whats next drill them out???

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vince_o
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by vince_o »

Heres what I do in the case they wont come out. First get a big screw driver and pry the fingers of the clutch out and away. Then put a 3 jaw puller on the pto and pull the bearing and all off. Then put the pto in a vise and get a # 20 or 25 torx and BEAT it into the set screw and get it out. When its in the vise you can add heat ect. Once you get them out, chase the threads with a 1/4 20 tap. Also if you must drill them out, this is much easier to do. Switch to pb blast, and times is your best friend on this job along with patiance.
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
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Paulf
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by Paulf »

Robert, here's the procedure that I use. Hopefully they have rounded off yet, but I cover that as well.

http://www.cubcadetman.com/content/inde ... ut=default

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vince_o
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by vince_o »

Paul

Nice write up!
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
-Andrew Jackson

wshytle
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by wshytle »

A couple of months ago I had this situation and after soaking the screws for a day or so I used a propane torch to put heat right at the point of each screw. I didn't heat it red hot; it didn't need it. The screws then came right on out. I had the grill removed with good access to the pto. I figure it gets pretty darn hot anyway so why not try a little heat and it worked well. Just be careful not to overheat the clutch disc and try a little at a time. I think the heat also allows the PB to really get down in the threads too...what isn't burned off with the heat. I only applied the heat to the pulley portion and not directly over the hole. Also, it's a good idea to wear gloves (and always eye protection) while trying it this way (no brainer) and just do a little heat at a time as I mentioned then give the allen wrench a try. I did have to repeat it several times on a couple of the screws but they all finally came on out.

Paulf
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by Paulf »

Thanks, Vince. I write that stuff up so I don't forget all the small stuff. With age it's harder and harder to remember. It seems like whenever I forget a step and take a shortcut, it just doesn't work out. I usually go back and reread it myself before removing another PTO.

PTWannaHave
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by PTWannaHave »

wshytle wrote:A couple of months ago I had this situation and after soaking the screws for a day or so I used a propane torch to put heat right at the point of each screw...
I am right at the start of this front PTO removal task...! Currently am following CubCadetMan's documented procedure (many thanks!!), and will add heat as previously described to the mix.

The short, top set screws are non-existant, and two of three of the bottom set screws are quite corroded... Not expecting an allen wrench to get a firm hold... If the 1/8" allen key strips the hex hole, I think I'll try hammering a torx into there before resorting to drilling them out. (I am mentally prepared for the latter, but I sure hope it won't come to that...) Soaking the holes with Seafoam Deep Creep for 24-48hrs as 1st step (after cleaning out years of accumulated sediment).

Man... Whenever I bolt something together, I always ask myself: "Do I want this to be 'undoable' in the future?" I wish everyone did the same!

Cheers,
PTWannaHave

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Farmallgray
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by Farmallgray »

Robert,
Take you WD40 can, grasp it firmly, then pitch it in the garbage. Then go to a parts store and buy some PB Blaster. WD40 is not a good penetrant. :lol:
See my IH, Cub Cadet and tractor pulling youtube videos;
http://www.youtube.com/user/farmallgray

TWheaton
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by TWheaton »

Or, send it on down to me. It gives relief to fire ant bites. :D

roadstar30
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by roadstar30 »

Ok i am going to the Hardware store today to get a few (6) Allen head wrenches, I Am armed with a heat and vise grips, drill bits and pb blaster, Looking for impact allen head sockets that are long enough.
i have two of these to do !!!!

deepsouthsupply
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by deepsouthsupply »

My 1 cents worth:..if you ever do get one the the set screws loose enough to move..tighten it back up and loosen it again. tighten up and loosen again..this procedure will often times get a stuck, seized screw or bolt free and out..without drilling...PATIENCE...is best tool here... :beer:

wshytle
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by wshytle »

I agree with what Deepsouthsupply wrote. Patience can be the best tool in this situation. A couple of days ago I had one that I started twisting allen wrenches in so I used a version of Vinces idea and removed the whole package, bearing, collar and all by tapping with a long punch from down by the points cover. I tapped a bit then rotated the engine and tapped some more. Once the pto was off I disassembled it and started soaking the set screws once again. After a couple of days I was able to start the screws turning and then did the back and forth thing using kroil along the way. The threads can get so much crud/rust build up behind the screws that the screws will be "cutting" their way out (sorta). This is also a time you can use a good amount of heat which almost always works but I didn't need it in this case. Once they are all out and the pto is almost ready for reassembly I run a 1/4"-20 tap through each hole. If you do this you will see the crud/rust I mentioned earlier. It also helps to make reassembly much easier.

deepsouthsupply
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by deepsouthsupply »

send us a pic of the PTO job..please...

wshytle
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by wshytle »

If you're asking for a pic from me I'm a little confused. What, exactly do you want to see? I have a dirty brake style pto pressure plate with the screws already out. Cleaning and prepping for primer is the next step then I'll resurface both plates. I use a 4"x36" belt sander for that and it does a pretty good job.

If you want to see something specific let me know and I'll be glad to post a pic (if I can remember how).

PTWannaHave
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by PTWannaHave »

deepsouthsupply wrote:My 1 cents worth:..if you ever do get one the the set screws loose enough to move..tighten it back up and loosen it again. tighten up and loosen again..this procedure will often times get a stuck, seized screw or bolt free and out..without drilling...PATIENCE...is best tool here... :beer:
I can vouch for that! After soaking the holes with penetrant for 48hrs, I then heated the PTO pulley (with propane torch) at the bottom of the v-groove, next to the bottom of the hole that contains the set screws. (Before heating, I made sure the allen key had a good positive lock on the set screw.) After heat, I gently, but firmly applied on/off pressure to the allen key until the set screw issued an audible 'crack'. (That was great to hear, since it meant I didn't strip the set screw head.) Then, apply penetrant and coax screw out 1/4 turn at a time. I think it took me 2hrs. to remove 6 set screws.

The bearing collar was loosened fairly easily with punch, and bearing had to be removed with three-prong puller. Both had also been soaking in penetrant before hand. Next, I will attempt to remove pulley/basket combo by drilling holes and using automotive steering wheel puller. (Soaking in penetrant until I get to it...)

Cheers,
PTWannaHave

JMotuzick
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by JMotuzick »

Ben
The basket pulley can be just as fun as the PTO. I like to clean and debur the crank before I start emery works good for this. Also remove the set screws and put the pb blaster in the hole as well. Once your able to start the pully drive the key back toward the block and give it more oil. The key often stays with the pully and won't help things. I like to rotate the pully once the key is out to help distribute the oil better. Good luck

wshytle
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by wshytle »

The collar on the basket pulley is rather thick so I recently started using a lot of propane type heat there. I also found that if you can get a bent pry bar behind the BP and all of the way to the crank it will put pressure directly on this collar. I found this out by using it as a last resort but now I get the torch to it first thing. Of course I'm using PB the whole time but it burns off rather quickly. After a few minutes the BP usually "pops" loose. You also avoid denting the back of the pulley this way. It's the easiest method I've found so far especially with the BP being one of the toughest pulleys to remove. I guess it helps if you can get the key out first but it's usually pretty difficult and I've found not really necessary. Like was mentioned before, cleaning the crank with emery cloth can help a bunch.

PTWannaHave
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by PTWannaHave »

Thanks for the additional tips guys; I read them this morning after getting the basket pulley off last night.

The task went very well. The shaft is not pitted, and I had been soaking the pulley flange in penetrant for 24-48hrs. I drilled two 3/8" holes and used a standard automotive steering wheel puller (with 5/16" bolts). I was able to get washers between the pulley and the nuts at the back of the pulley, which I figured would help with reducing indentation at the back of the pulley. After an initial semi-hard tug of the wrench on the puller, the BP slipped off like hot butter. (The shaft key did not budge at all.)

Heating the BP flange and then adding more penetrant would also be a very good idea before wrenching the puller!

Cheers,
PTWannaHave

wdeturck

Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by wdeturck »

When I drill holes to use a steering wheel puller on pulleys I drill 1/4" holes and tap then with a 5/16"-18 tap and don't need the nuts. If they strip out you can than use the nuts.

PTWannaHave
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by PTWannaHave »

Yeah, I might do that next time... I did not have difficulty putting nuts on the back side of pulley with long needle nose pliers though.

Cheers,
PTWannaHave

roadstar30
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by roadstar30 »

Ok I got it off today, I tryed the heat, the bp blaster, allen wrench etc to no avail. So i drilled the suckers out the best i could i know i got a 1/8 bit all the way down on all three. maybe i got a 3/16 down all the way in at least one hole.
So i ended drilling the front bolts out in the front of the pto and put a puller on the pto and got it off the bearing stayed on the shaft. so now the bearing seems in good shape.
so how does the pto go back on??? Or how do i press it on the bearing thats still on the shaft ??????
and so the allen screws just hold the pto on bearing ????
i guess the bearing is a press fit on to the shaft then!!
would like to get this back together so i can do it all over again on the 108 when i change that engine out soon.

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J Hayes
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by J Hayes »

Those set screws are pointed, and kind of clamp on the back edge of the bearing.
you will need to re thread the holes to hold the clutch on the bearing. Just hope you didn't drill them too large.
If you did some of us may have some parts clutches around .
My mind wants a Divorce ?? .

wshytle
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by wshytle »

roadstar30-

The bearing is held on the crank by way of a locking collar. It's NOT pressed on. You may need to use a puller to persuade it off after the locking collar has been released. The collar has a set screw and maybe a nut to help keep the set screw locked. Once the screw is loosened there is an unthreaded hole off to the side of the set screw. This hole is for a punch to rotate the collar which is how it locks the bearing onto the shaft. If it was put on properly you should be able to "punch" it clockwise to loosen. It usually doesn't take much to get it loose. I say this because the manual says to lock it by rotating the collar in the direction of engine rotation which is counterclockwise as you face the front of the tractor. Once it's loose the bearing should slide off but may need some persuasion with a puller. After you get everything of I'd clean the crankshaft with some emery cloth. It makes reassembly a bit easier. I even apply a thin coat of grease to the crank to slow any rust.

To get the pto back on the bearing make sure the inside surface of the pto is very clean. Any rust or old paint will hinder installation because it's a tight fit over the bearing. I have used a rubber mallet here to get the pto onto the bearing lightly hitting left and right sides as it goes on. It MUST be on all of the way too. It has to be all of the way because the set screws lock behind the bearing as previously mentioned. Nothing to do with the pto installation is pressed on. They can be very difficult to remove after years of service so patience is the key here. I've never heard of anyone drilling out the three bolts on the pto in order to get it out.

roadstar30
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by roadstar30 »

so I should be able to put pto back on the engine with the bearing already on the shaft as it came off.
I had bought another pto so i didnt care how the old one came off but that it did.
there's always a first time for every thing!!!!! It worked for me.
Thanks

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vince_o
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by vince_o »

Robert

If the bearing stayed locked on the shaft/collar then yes you can put the pto back on. Just double check it didnt move all is still locked in place. I put a touch of antisise on the bearing race where it touches the pto, just incase you have to pull it back off next time.
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
-Andrew Jackson

roadstar30
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Re: front pto set screw removal

Post by roadstar30 »

vince_o wrote:Robert

If the bearing stayed locked on the shaft/collar then yes you can put the pto back on. Just double check it didnt move all is still locked in place. I put a touch of antisise on the bearing race where it touches the pto, just incase you have to pull it back off next time.
yes anti sieze is my friend when putting it back together. will be putting it also on the set screws, Wanted to do this one first to befor i change the 108's motor cause i will need to reuse all from the old motor to switch to the new motor for sure.
thanks for everyones help here on this forum

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