What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

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BearKiller
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What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by BearKiller »

What engine-oil should I use in my 12-horse Kohler ??

For nearly a hundred years, I have used 15W-40 CI-4+ (never that CJ-4 poison) in everything from push-mowers to road-tractors, but it seems like I read somewhere that these engines are extremely particular as to which oil should be used.

Thank you.

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vince_o
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by vince_o »

I use 30 wt oil
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JMotuzick
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by JMotuzick »

I change my oil every spring no matter what. I use a brand name synthetic or synthetic blend, whatever may be on sale in mid march when I change it. I Also spike with MMO.

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Paul B
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Paul B »

Kohler says to use 30W when the temps are above 32 degrees, 10W-30 or 40 from zero to 32, 5W-20 or 5W-30 from -2 or below up to 32 degrees, all should be Service Class SF or SG. 10W-30 and 40 are not recommended (by Kohler) above 32 degrees.
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BearKiller
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by BearKiller »

Paul B wrote:Kohler says to use 30W when the temps are above 32 degrees, 10W-30 or 40 from zero to 32, 5W-20 or 5W-30 from -2 or below up to 32 degrees, all should be Service Class SF or SG. 10W-30 and 40 are not recommended (by Kohler) above 32 degrees.
Is that 30-WT NON-detergent or detergent ??

Thanks.


I see you are from Louisville; I bought my 129 at last year's fall swap-meet at the state fair-grounds.

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Paul B
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Paul B »

As per the Kohler Engines K-Series engine manual, it should be a, quote: "high-quality detergent oil of API (American Petroleum Institute) Service Class SF or SG." end quote.
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Farmallgray
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Farmallgray »

I haven't done much research on it, but I'm wondering if the modern 30 wt oils still have zinc in them. All modern car engines have roller tappets and don't need the zinc. But flat tappets
in our Kohlers and other older engines do. They have taken to zinc out because of some emission issues.
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Ben Morong »

They reduced the zinc levels because it wasn't good for catalytic converters, so I've had to shop around for oil for my MG Midget. Found Valvoline racing oil has 1200 ppm of zinc, but it's 20w-50. You can buy a zinc supplement and add it to your regular oil.
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Paul B
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Paul B »

It is my understanding that Shell Rotella (for diesels) still has some zinc in it and you can get it in 30W and 10W-30. It meets API CF and CF-2 service class standards, but I don't know how the SF and CF standards compare. I understand Lucas Oil has an oil that still has a high zinc content, but I have not tried it. You can still get the IH low ash oil from Case IH dealers I believe.
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Farmallgray
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Farmallgray »

I run the Rotella SAE 30 in my 882 diesel with some STP since it is high in zinc. I didn't realize it did have zinc already. I won't put the STP in air cooled Kohlers because Kohler strongly recommends against any additives. I'll see what I can find out about the Lucas at work. Valvoline does make a Racing SAE 30 with zinc. I run it in my pullers because the cam grinder
recommended it. Kind of expensive for the workers though.
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vince_o
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by vince_o »

Is there a reason you guys dont run Kohler oul
? I lnow when
I worked with Frank thats what we used and he sold it chieper than the auto parts stores, sorry Todd. I know the Kawasaki tear down school they said their oil has a highzink content in it. Ill see if I can find out anything about the Kubota oil at work.
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BearKiller
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by BearKiller »

It is getting harder and harder to find engine oil that still has a decent additive package.

I found a bulk supplier for the old-school API-CI4+ 15W-40 that I use; it is impossible to find any other than emmissions-friendly API-CJ4 at the parts-stores, Walmarts, and such.

The emissions-friendly oils must be changed much more frequently, as their additive-package soon breaks down and extended drain intervals are not recommended.

So far as ZDDP(zinc), for more years than I can remember, I have been pre-mixing a 15-ounce blue-bottle of STP with EVERY gallon of oil, regardless of whether it was going in a push-mower or a bull-dozer.

I have many hundreds of thousands of miles on all my trucks and many years of use on everything else around here and I have never had any oil-related issues to date, so if the STP possibly isn't of any benefit, it for certain isn't causing any harm.


As for the Kohler, I am going to research some of the better 30W diesel oils and see if they are backwards-compatible with API-SF/SG

As for adding a bit of STP, I wouldn't be the slightest afraid.

Thanks.

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Farmallgray
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Farmallgray »

Vince,
For economic reasons I won't run anything I can't buy at work.
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vince_o
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by vince_o »

Todd you know I was pulling your chain right.

My neighbor picked this up today. Not marked with what Paul
listed. Anyone know what they stand for?
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Farmallgray
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by Farmallgray »

The "C" API designations are for diesel and the "S" are for gasoline engines.

Vince,
I do run Kohler filters because I can get them through work.
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CDLong
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by CDLong »

Tractor Supply has a good lawnmower oil. Run it with MMO in both 1450s.
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ihcctim
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by ihcctim »

Hello folks,
Been a while since i have been on here.Alot of good topics and such.Stumbled across this topic(no,i didnt fall down) and just thought i'd offer my 2cents on the required k series engine oil requirements as I understand them.From collecting IH Cub Cadets for over twenty years i learned early on why it is important to use the recomended oil by Kohler/CC. That being said the oil for the K series must be 30w LOW ASH oil in the summer months.Both Kohler oil and Cub Cadet oil both found at your local CC dealer.Yes, they are 4-6 bucks a quart.But here is what i understand as to why it is important.The k seriers engine is an air cooled engine and is constructed of cast iron/steel.Yes i know all of you know so bear with me for explanation purposes.That being said,They run HOT compared to a liquid cooled or aluminum air cooled engine.The steel blocks do not disapate heat as readily as aluminum blocks do.So when a non spec or "modern" oil is used all the additives that are in them tend to burn off more easily and create premature carbon buildup as well as other deposits in your cumbustion chamber and around your valves.If the wrong oil is used regularly and deposits/carbon are allowed to build up it will eventualy lead to premature cyylinder/bore wear as all the googlee-gunk deposits break away and score your bore.Not to mention sticking rings. Also with excess deposits/carbon it will raise your compression which will promote detonation from to high of cylinder pressures.And we all know that is rough on the rotating assembly.At least a stock one.As for winter oil spec it is ok to use the multi spec as per Kohler's recomendation.Why? because my educated guess is that the engine runs cool enough in the winter temps to render the above mentioned scenario mute. I am by no means a oil expert but am a truck mechanic/owner operator for 30 years+. Hope my 2 cents sheds some light.Tim
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BearKiller
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by BearKiller »

Thanks, ihcctim.

That is a point I had not pondered upon and makes very good sense to me.

By "low ash", do you mean non-detergent or detergent oil ??



While on the subject, what is the engine-oil capacity of the engine in in my 129; if I understand correctly, 12-horse Kohler.

Thanks.

ihcctim
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by ihcctim »

Well, As i said,I am not a oil expert.But you asked a good question on the low ash requirement.All i do know is that is that ash tends to expedite deposits build up.Ya got my gears turnin and i think i will do a little web research on it as to exactly why low ash is specified for these engines according to kohler/CC. As for the oil capacity it is 1.5 quarts. Here is a link that you may find helpful for your 129. http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractor ... ngine.html Hope i helped,Tim
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ihcctim
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by ihcctim »

Just thought about your question again.I also at one time pondered using non detergent.But when i read the lable on it it said nothing about ash content.And me trying to do things right decided not to go with it. I Just bit the bullet and bought 30w low ash right off the shelf at my local cub dealer. I do a couple of complete restorations a year on these tractors and 4-5 mechanical restorations and sell them.A self supporting hobby.At least i try to make that way. And i tell everyone why it is important to use this oil for long engine life.I even give them a couple quarts when i sell a tractor with a freshly rebuilt engine for break in reasons. I even in some cases ask them if they store it in a garage and use it in the winter then don't use the multi viscosity.It is really just for easier starting and oil distribution upon startup in the cold.I tell them leave the 30w in unless you have trouble starting it.Start it and leave it idle for 5 mins to get the oil thinned a bit and your good to go.In the winter that is.If your garage is heated,then disregard the last step. I restored a 122 in 1997 and installed brand new replacement engine for it.(you could get them back then). I sold the tractor to my dad And he uses it regularly.He has followed all the maintenence requirements as i know them to be and it runs like the day the engine was new.This year i will pull the head off and decarbon the cumbustion chamber/head though.16 years of use with about 1200+ hrs on it.Its due and is a routine maintenence requirement.If you have a manual for for your 129 you will see in the back some where a chart that illustrates maintenence intervals.I go by it religiously.Although memorized.These intervals when adhered to is why these tractors last so so long. Great examples of how our country built things back then.Simple but durable. Tim
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ihcctim
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by ihcctim »

Here is what i put in all my k series engines.
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JLazar
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by JLazar »

Same here Tim. I run only Cub Cadet oil in my 71 and 72 IH Cub Cadet garden tractors. I always check the oil and gas before a start up, and always keep the oil on the full mark of the bayonet oil check stick. 8-)
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by nitrobandit »

Hi All,
Let me put the "zinc" issue to bed with a simple additive. I've had many K series Kohlers over the years and I have only used Castrol SAE30 detergent oil in all of them. Being that the zinc content is low or non existent in oils nowdays all you have to do is go to your local new car dealer and buy a can of BG MOA oil additive. This additive replaces zinc content to your oil and help reduce the acid buildup in the oil as it gets dirty, plus it help keep the inside of the block and all internals clean. I hav3e been using this and BG 44K fuel additive for 25 plus years and these products truly do work, in fact the 44K will keep you from having to decarb the cylinder head.

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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by RoyNajecki »

As suggested, the zinc in motor oil has been greatly reduced because it shortens the life of catalytic converters. So only oils made for off-road engines are likely to have high amounts of zinc. The Zinc is Zinc Salt of Dialkyl Dithiophosphoric Acid aka Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphoric Acid Salt. Otherwise known as ZDDP. Kohler Magnum Low-Ash SAE30 oil is made by Warren Oil Co. (Warren Performance Products) in North Carolina and reportedly has 1500 parts per million of ZDDP. Warren Oil also makes the Tractor Supply Co. – Traveller SAE30 Lawnmower Oil (TSLM30PL). TSC also sells a Traveller Heavy Duty SAE30, and is also made by Warren Oil Co (TS02302G). I don't know if the Kohler and TSC brands contain the same amount of ZDDP.

John Deere sells a similar off-road use oil – Torq-Gard SAE30 (made by Conoco-Phillips), but I couldn't find out its ZDDP ppm.

Shell Rotella SAE30 - 1000 ZDDP ppm

If your looking for more than a gallon of oil, it might be worthwhile checking out your local Case-IH dealer, as they sell the same Kohler oil as the local Cub Cadet dealer. They also sell Hy-Tran Ultra in 5 gallon pails, which we all use lots of, at big discount vs. buying by the gallon jug at Cub Cadet.

ihcctim
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Re: What OIL for MODEL 129 with Kohler Engine ???

Post by ihcctim »

Good post Roy. Thanks.Tim
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