Can't find Hydro oil leak

[CDLong]

Is there a dye or colored hydro oil that can be purchased? I have a leak on 1450 #1 and I can't find where it's coming from. Appears to be the right front/side of the hydro, but I'm not sure.

[Farmallgray]

You can get dye that will show up under black light. NAPA sells it part # 765-2661.

[CDLong]

Thank you sir. That'a a start.

[ReicheP]

Pull the drive shaft cover off and inspect the pressure relief valves. They can leak out of the top.

[CDLong]

Valves are not leaking.

[SWilliams]

Wipe off everything you can or wash it. Dust the hydro with cheap baby powder. Start it and look for the wet spots. easy and cheap.

[PTWannaHave]

I have a similar problem; like that solution...!

[PTWannaHave]

OK, well; I am finally back at this older problem for me on my 125...

That tractor got me into the hobby, and my need of a diagnosis for a transmission problem led me to this site's trunion repair thread... Repaired the trunion in-tractor (not the easiest on a narrow frame...), got everything else done to my liking and started joyriding the tractor in a few parades and in the yard with kids. I noticed that the tranny started to lurch after awhile, taking a second or two to engage after moving the lever... (Oil & filter replaced.) I also eventually noticed a small pool of tranny fluid under the tractor after it sat parked.

I was able to determine that the tranny is leaking, but only when running/under load. Looked as best as I could, but could not determine the origin of the leak. Set aside for longer than I thought; now back to it this winter... Split the tractor and was able to take a much better look at the oil residue. It sure seems like the leak is between the aluminum pump housing and cast iron tranny housing. Possibly from the internal brake plunger as well.

A search on this forum indicates that I most likely need to replace cork gasket 721-3004. However, in the same parts diagram, there is also a 2 1/8 expansion plug (726-0216). Should it be changed as well, and is it onerous to do so?

Once the pump if off the tranny housing, is the brake plunger o-ring easily accessible/changed? (Any tricks?)

The pump housing is basically dry, by the way. Fins are fairly clean, quite a bit of dry crud just past the relief valves. Hard to tell if they were leaking and the cause of that crud. The pins move freely, but are a little sticky. I guess I should simply remove, clean thoroughly, replace springs and o-rings?

Other than leaking (and lurching most likely due to low oil), the tranny operated as expected. So, I am assuming/hoping at this point that I do not need to rebuild the pump.

Thank-you in advance for your insight,

[dag1450]

I will b following this thread. Like was said earlier.....u could have cleaned off the trans and rear housing good and i like the powder idea, but now that its apart i think u will just do what u can and hope for the best. The reason i say that is u will do the cork gasket with no issue, just make sure to clean all surfaces real good and i dont think a touch of rtv would hurt ether. But on the internal brakes....i have not seen seals for that for sale and would b interested to know if someone sells them. I quick looked at a couple suppliers and did not see the larger retainer that i think seals the brake shaft, Cub may have the thin o ring. I really like the look of the internal brake set-up, very clean without rods and calipers all over to clutter up the rear end. Let us know what u find. Dave

[Tom Scott]

Ben - I would have wanted to verify that the hydro was ok by topping off and verifying that it worked smoothly before the teardown. But, as Dave says, it is apart now so just move forward. I doubt the large freeze plug is your problem. They are easy to pull, but they generally need a hole drilled in them to pry them out, and that will only put metal in the system. As long as you don't see evidence that the plug is the real leaker, just clean off the perimeter of the plug with cleaner and smear some Permatex #1 around it, and leave it be. No reason to remove it if it is ok.

For the cork seal, I like Permatex #2. I just like the old school tacky stuff for the gasket dressing better than rtv. The rtv seems to be more prone to squeezing out, and you don't need that floating around in the hydro. The number 2 is easy to work with and put a light smear on the gasket faces.

I showed some pics of the large disc plug and cork gasket replacement on my 2182 rehab last year. The cork gasket and disc plug are discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5282&start=60

Yes, mine is a newer tractor with aluminum housing, but I don't think that changes the assembly. Let us know how you do.

[ksanders]

I was working on one for someone last year with the same issue. Thought it was the relief valves but nope. Ended up being the seal on the right side attached to the trunion shaft. Tiny seal, real hard to get out, and costs $14. I took the rear out and screwed a screw into it several time and got it to pull out. Leak free now and it was pouring out pretty good before.

[dag1450]

Good write up on internal rear brakes. Sounds like u only need the one thin o ring to seal the rear oil. Davehttp://gardentractorpullingtips.com/brakes.htm

[PTWannaHave]

Update:

I cleaned the pump assembly thoroughly. With the pump facing up, I removed it. The cork gasket was whole, and paper thin. Everything else looks so good, that I am going to replace that cork gasket only and see how it goes.

Has anyone thought of putting two cork gaskets...? It's one of those situations where something a little thicker seems like it would be better... (Planning to add a little RTV sealant on the inner edge and outer edge of the gasket where the three holes are... That's where oil flows, and there's not much material there to seal the two metal surfaces...)

Thank-you in advance,

[dag1450]

I remember one seal i did......i had everything all cleaned up, cork in place and painted with permatex aviation sealant. I had the rear end propped up on about a 45 degree angle for eas of working on. well when i went to lower on the pump....some fluid ran out on my nice paint job. Whats funny is i cant remember if i just continued setting it down or if i redid the sealant. lol I do remember it did not leak so eather way it worked out. Just try to make sure the pump is empty before starting the gasket. lol Dave

[Farmallgray]

I wouldn't put two gaskets in. Chances are one will slip or be pushed out and cause a leak. Some guys make their own gaskets from 1/16" thick neoprene material. I have had pretty good luck with them so far. I replaced the original gasket in my 782 about 12 years ago with an OEM cork gasket. I put a thin coat of Permatex ultra black on the non adhesive side. It held up for a good while, but its leaking again now. So far the ones I have used neoprene are holding up good.

[Jlaws]

The last pump I changed out I also went to the neoprene gasket , it is a little thicker and I trust it more than the flimsy cork gasket , and so far I haven't had it leak either .

I also think Todds right about doubling up on the cork gasket , one is probably gonna split or get pushed out when compressed .

[PTWannaHave]

I wouldn't put two gaskets in. Chances are one will slip or be pushed out and cause a leak.

Well, I put two cork gaskets before I had a chance to read this... I torqued the bolts to 35 ft/lbs instead of 30. I put some gasket maker silicone at the bottom (where the three holes are), where the union of the two pieces seems more likely to leak. (In the pic, you can see how the black silicone spilled out a bit as I planned.) Where does one buy the neoprene gaskets...?

By doing this gasket repair with the tranny facing up, and using a 3/4" expansion rubber plug, I was able to keep most of the fluid (which had very little hours on it). Things are now bolted back together, I raised the rear wheels just off the ground, topped off fluid, and I will soon start the engine and check operation.

gasket, silicone, & 3/4 inch expansion plug

IMGP4837.JPG (1.04 MiB) Viewed 12636 times

transmission repair position (held by blocks of wood)

IMGP4838.JPG (1.06 MiB) Viewed 12636 times

[Farmallgray]

Nobody makes the neoprene gaskets. You have to make them yourself from sheet material. I got mine from www.useenco.com or www.mscdirect.com but Mcmaster-carr should have it too. Some guys have said they have gotten it from auto parts stores. I work at a NAPA store and we do not carry it. Our gasket supplier (Fel-pro) doesn't offer it in sheet form.

[JMech]

Using silicone of a cork gasket is a no-no. There is good chance that the silicone squeezed into the holes and blocked them off just like it oozed out the sides of the gasket. Also, it makes the cork slick and the gasket squeezes out the sides instead of compressing like it's supposed to. There is seldom a time when installing a gasket of any kind dry is not the best way to go about things. If it leaks, try again with no silicone.

[PTWannaHave]

Thanks for the heads-up JMech!

I put a very tiny bead of silicone so that only the outside edge of the cork gasket would come into contact with it. (I put the bead on the transmission casing; into the 'machined corner'.) I put the silicone in such a way to minimize squeezing into the oil passage and having an easier path to spill out towards the outside of the gasket. (Not sure if this textual description helps...?)

Time will tell if this was a poor repair. Very early indication is promising with no leaks.

Happy New Year Y'all !