782d won't start

[wnwfurn]

OK, here goe's.
Thank you first off for letting me join the sight. Seems to be a great bunch!
I have a 782 smoker that I have owned since 1989. 6 years ago my son was mowing with it and he told me it blew black smoke and died. I let it cool and tried to start it, it puffed but never lit up. Also had a bit of strain as if one of the cylinders had went bad. Made the big mistake of pushing behind the shop and let her sit out for 2 yrs. before I finally thought to get in gear and at least put her in the barn. Thus faded paint. None of the controls had seized so I dowsed them with PB blaster and she remained in the barn until just the other day.
By the way, to keep up with my mowing I went out 6 yrs. ago and bought a cub GT1554 and hooked a 60" swisher behind it. Still miss the old powerhouse though.
I took the valve cover off and all valves are working fine as well as tappet clearance. Very clean and tidy.Drained diesel, blew lines,bled lines right up to fuel injectors then cranked her over, nothing! Glow plugs working or at least electric to them. I did notice center fuel injecter pushing fuel back where it threads in.
Question is, could one fuel injecter cause engine shutdown and make it refuse to start?

[vince_o]

Tony

First off welcome to the site. Next Ill ask they guys in the shop as they are real knowalgable on those engs. So stay tuned, and maybe Todd or someone else will chime in on that problem.

[EngineMike]

Tony, Welcome!

As far as your engine problems, I'll give you my two cents (for what it's worth).

First thing I would do is a compression check thru your glow plug holes. Some auto parts stores will let you rent one or borrow one from a friend. Check compression in each cylinder and compare results. You should always crank engine around 3-5 revolutions and be consistent with every cylinder. If two cylinders read 250 and ones 100 then that answers that problem. These are very easy engines to do a compression check on. This is a quick and easy way to narrow down what your working with, before you waste a ton of time chasing a bad cylinder.

I don't feel like your going to have a compression issue from what info you've given, I'm leaning on it being a blown fuel injector tip. More than likely from water or contamination in the fuel. Kubota engines are very strong engines (watch Todd's videos) and I see them all the time in the 5000+ hour range in other applications. In these tractors they'll more than likely out last the machine (like diesels in most applications). But the best engines in the world can be taken out in a blink of an eye with bad fuel.

To answer your question if you have one injector the engine should run, mind you rough. Being a small displacement three cylinder, it might not have enough to fire on just the two however. Check the glow plugs to make sure there good if you take them out. Is there any smoke coming out the exhaust at all? If compressions good and glow plugs are good, I would then shot silicone spray into the intake while cranking the engine over. That's a safer way to give it a little boost to help spin the engine over and get the fuel moving. Some engines are tough to bleed and a little spray helps them along. Silicone spray is a much safer than ether to start a diesel. If it fires and runs rough and smokes, crack the fuel lines and see which injector doesn't change engine RPM. Or if you have a laser temp gun, check the engine manifold for a cold/lazy cylinder.

Of course there's always other possibilities and there's more than one way to skin a cat, but for what you've told me that's what's jumping out at me the most right now. Being there and seeing how it's acting in person in one thing, a description over a computer is another. Let us know how it works out for you and if you have any other questions please feel free to post them and we'll try our best to help you.

Thanks, Engine Mike

[wnwfurn]

Thank you Vince and Mike!
Mike, I have a compression guage and will definitely run the test. I have broken ribs so I am a little slow.
I will post again as soon as I run the test.
Thanks again!
Tony

[BigMike]

Will a common automotive compression gauge handle the pressure of a diesel?

[wnwfurn]

I have one that goe's to 300 psi, unfortunatly, I can't find the adapter!

[vince_o]

Tony

I was out of the shop all day today, but on fridays I eat lunch with all the shop guys, so Ill ask them.
Large amound of black smoke is unburnt fuel most of the times.

[wnwfurn]

New twist, I talked to my son today, who was 16 at the time, and he said it blew a whitish smoke as well as a blackish smoke and he is the one who actually shut the engine down.
Before I had posted that the engine had died on it's own. This might change the line of thinking a bit.
Until I run a CT, I guess all the points are mute. Hey, I'm trying to get to that test, just sore as heck!
I really appreciate all the info you guys are giving me, awesome bunch!

[EngineMike]

Tony,

BigMike brought up a good point. When I had put up the 250 compression number I was just throwing a random number up for comparison purposes. I got to work today to look up the actual number: 412-469 PSI on a D600 Kubota. Obviously now your 350 guage will not work on this engine (or it will be very close to maxing it out). Try looking for a diesel compression gauge kit, or if you have no luck borrowing one I'd be happy to send you mine.

Now with the new info you just posted I would deffinitly start with a compression check.

Check the coolant level and see where it's at, Kubota engines are very prone to cracked cylinder heads (not as prevalent in the cubs, but possible). Doesn't take much to open the radiator cap and see if the coolants right to the top (or close). If you don't see it, fill it up and see how low it is. Whitish smoke is usally a good indication of coolant in the cylinders being burned, but that's certainly not the only cause of white smoke(head gasket/leaking injector copper(doesn't have any)/cracked cylinder head, ect, ect, ect).

Let us know when you get the compression numbers and we'll go from there with you.

Thanks, Engine Mike

[wnwfurn]

Engine Mike
Great info. I think I can round up a guage through my buddy system. Thank you for the offer, not many people would do that.
As soon as he told me about the whitish smoke I leaned towards the same lines as you do.
The coolant level is good. He said he shut her down quick though. I have to test her before we can go any further.
Thank you,
Tony

[vince_o]

The guys said at lunch today possible injector and look for coolant leaks.

Mike we need another good mechanic, this is why I do sales now, LMAO!

[wnwfurn]

[wnwfurn]

Since you guys have been so good to me I figured I'd let you know that I have made 0 progress on my project.
Fianally am able to work in my shop again and with the back log, let alone lack of $, I am unable to devote any time to her.
Just touching base, I will get back as soon as I get that hard commoditie "time".
Thanks again for all of your imput!

[wnwfurn]

I do not want to be out of line so let me know if I am.
It has become apparant I will not have the time to work on my 782D.
Plow days are this weekend and I am located 12 miles south of washington C.H. ohio.
Would anybody be interested in seeing pictures of her with details about possibly letting her go?

[wnwfurn]

OK, I said I would not have time, I was not telling the truth. Found the time to take the glow plugs out and low and behold the cylinder at the front has 0 compression.
At this point I am leaning towards a broken rod. I still have not ran a compression check on the other two cylinders as that guage seems to be a hard commodity.
No matter what it is a complete teardown. Hopefully a clean break without smacking the valves.
Thanks in advance, what do you think?

[BigMike]

Think happy thoughts, maybe it's got a stuck or broken valve either way it sucks you have a dead cylinder.

[wnwfurn]

The valve train seems to be working fine., Man, just seems to be totally dead as if the piston is just setting in limbo in the cylinder. Thanks for the reply!
Tony

[BigMike]

I wouldn't be able to stand not knowing, I would HAVE to pull the top end apart
I would hope it wouldn't take more than a couple of hours to get the head off so you can see whats up...or not.

Keep us updated when you can dive in.......I have an 882 I can only assume has 5,000 or more hours on and I think it's getting tired and one of these winters I am going to have to pull it apart so I am very interested in your journey.

[wnwfurn]

Positive thoughts Big Mike!
I have always heard these engines would last well into the 4000+ range. Near as I can tell it is setting with about 2200 hrs.
More history, this mower was state owned and used to mow a rest stop on 71. They had 2 of them and I was fortunate enough to put a bid in and buy it. I assume mechanically, being state owned, proper maintenace was performed.
My hr. guage shows 1653 hrs. They supposedly replaced the guage at 500 or so hrs. and I bought it with 435 showing.
I'm a believer in maintenance so i am going to assume the gods were just not smilin on this one!