Rebuilding a 42" mower deck from a 72... Tips?

[Briandoss]

Anyone have any tips for getting this spindle apart?

spindle.jpg (648.98 KiB) Viewed 11714 times

All 3 spindles look like this and the pulleys are rotten but the deck is in pretty good shape. I'm just lost on rebuilding these without destroying them.
Also, is there a good outlet for a rebuild kit for these old mower decks that won't break the bank. Is there any special coating thats suggested for the underside of the deck since I will be sand blasting and painting?

Thanks guys
Brian

[chzuck]

Go to the manuals section on here and download the manual for your deck. It is pretty simple to dis-assemble those spindles. If your shaft is OK, you can get the seals and bearings at any bearing store.

The hex head bolt with the grease fitting is what holds the assembly together.

[Klapatta]

As Charlie said.
This is what the shaft assembly should look like.

DSCN4155.JPG (82.97 KiB) Viewed 11700 times

Get them apart and someone will be happy to walk you through any questions that may come up.

[Briandoss]

Thanks for the info.. These spindles aren't coming apart very easily. I see that spindle still has the pulley on it. I'm now guessing that its pressed on and I will need to pull it apart if I want to replace it. I have them soaking in solvent right now, they're pretty corroded together.

Brian

[Klapatta]

Brian, the pulley is not pressed on. It is a slip fit. It's likely rusted pretty badly.
Remove the 9/16" hex bolt with the grease fitting.
Install a much longer 3/8" bolt.
Support the pulley with your hand
Take a hammer and with the other hand drive the pulley off.
After removing the pulley, remove the square key. Then tap the cup assembly out.
I noticed in your photo the blade retaining bolt is all chewed up.
Those can be obtained at any good hardware store. The thread is 3/4"-16.

[Briandoss]

Lol.. It might as well been pressed on Tahnks
By looking at the parts diagrams and replacement parts online i figured out how it went together, I put a puller on it anyway and it made pop noise and reluctantly slid apart. Its all soaking again. Ya that retainer nut was tough to remove, i ended up using a pipe wrench as you can tell.
I've looked at the parts diagrams in the manuals on this site and other sites and can't find a diagram with parts numbers listed, do you know of any?

Thanks a bunch,

Brian

Btw.. I figured out its a 38" not a 42" deck.

[Klapatta]

The bearing cage number is Timken #LM11949, the bearing cup number is Timken # LM11910.
SKF offers the whole package under their part listing as BR2, you will need 2 per hub.

DSCN0996.JPG (109.32 KiB) Viewed 11671 times

The midsize GM cars of the seventies used them as their outer front wheel bearing, for some reason 76 Camaro comes to mind as I had one.
The grease seal is IH 473 428 R91. with this number you can get it crossed referenced. I had that # somewhere but can't say where it is now. Pretty common as well and known to work, perhaps someone else here knows what it is?

[Oak]

I'm cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pack-of-10-Trai ... Vd&vxp=mtr

or here
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 34&jsn=250

These are what I use on the newer decks for part #921-3018. I think they are what you need but double check the number.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6PK-CUB-CADET-O ... -e56WlKOmQ

or here
http://tewarehouse.com/12535

[chzuck]

IH #473 428 R91 interchanges to SKF 530484. Could not find where it is the same as #921-3018. That number did not give results on the SKF interchange page.
Shop ebay. I get the part number, then go on ebay and search for the item with a buy it now, free shipping search. Many times you can do better than a bearing store price wise.

[Klapatta]

Nice info guys.
The Timken bearings from Rock Auto are four bucks apiece? That's a real deal, I'd go with what the spindle came with.
It so happens I have some of those seals in decent shape and one of them is a C/R stamped 530484 so yes that number is good. Checked sizes and it's a match.

DSCN6900.JPG (215.4 KiB) Viewed 11660 times

The later style 3018 seal lists sizes as too large though so that one will not work.

[Oak]

The Cub #921-3018 won't work. Its specs are 1.25" ID x 1.874 OD x 0.25.

The 530484 specs are 1" ID x 1.7813 OD x 0.25

[Klapatta]

When Brian gets all his parts cleaned up we can get around to discussing the matter of bearing preload.
It's not always just a matter of slapping it all back together. Sometimes it will work out that way just right, others times not so at all.
CCC sells a bearing kit that is preloaded (or at least it used to) but is was stupid expensive.

[Briandoss]

The bearing cage number is Timken #LM11949, the bearing cup number is Timken # LM11910.
SKF offers the whole package under their part listing as BR2, you will need 2 per hub.

DSCN0996.JPG

The midsize GM cars of the seventies used them as their outer front wheel bearing, for some reason 76 Camaro comes to mind as I had one.
The grease seal is IH 473 428 R91. with this number you can get it crossed referenced. I had that # somewhere but can't say where it is now. Pretty common as well and known to work, perhaps someone else here knows what it is?

So I got the hubs apart these part numbers are matching up with whats in there. I have a local bearing store thats pretty good at finding matches, will probably look around for deals too since i will need six sets. One thing i noticed is the rubber side of the grease seals were facing out, this doesn't seem right to me. Not sure about bearing pre load either, i know nothing about it.

I'm really amazed that this deck is not rotted through like most that have been left out in the weather to die..

[Klapatta]

Well, the condition of the deck shell is what matters most of all. Some folks like to paint them on the inside with truck bed liner or graphite paint, I choose the latter. Keep going. The spindle rebuild will be pretty straight forward, the preload test I mention is to ensure that everything is neither binding nor excessively loose. This procedure consists of a mock up of the assembly minus the oil seals, (these do not affect the bearing stack height), square key, and the lock washer. Leaving the oil seals out during the check allows you to disassemble the unit with ease should an adjustment be required. You may or may not have to add a thin machine shim or file down the split central collar that controls the bearing stack height. When doing the mock up check it's important to not go mixing your spacers from one assembly to another.
While you are gathering up your new parts there's this special lock washer that should be replaced every time one of these units is disassembled, it's quite important in keeping the whole thing together at speed.
You can get it from CCC or Fastenal has it as well, their part number 33762

33758_hr1c.jpg (15.96 KiB) Viewed 11619 times

Just as a beforehand tip I like to place a couple of drops of locktite to the bolt threads during the final assembly. It's not a pretty sight when one of those bolts backs itself out.
By the way, fixing Summer stuff in the Winter and Winter stuff in the Summer is the way to go

[chzuck]

I'm really amazed that this deck is not rotted through like most that have been left out in the weather to die..

Sadly the rotting takes place long before they are left out in the weather. Not cleaning them out regularly is what gives these decks cancer! I may go over board, but I clean mine every time I use it.

[Briandoss]

So I didn't get the center main blade off the spindle yet and fought it for a couple hours and with some heat and ingenuity i finally got that nut to come off. I then cleaned the sludge off the spindle shaft and found it was twisted off and the key seat is thrashed. So i will be needing another. I should have figured out that it was ruined as the pully and everything just came right apart. Anyway I thought I'd ask you guys before I shop elsewhere.

Nice info guys.
The Timken bearings from Rock Auto are four bucks apiece? That's a real deal, I'd go with what the spindle came with.
It so happens I have some of those seals in decent shape and one of them is a C/R stamped 530484 so yes that number is good. Checked sizes and it's a match.

DSCN6900.JPG

The later style 3018 seal lists sizes as too large though so that one will not work.

So do you have a link to those four buck bearings from Timken? I was hunting on rock auto but not finding them.

[Klapatta]

The link to the Timken made bearings from Rock Auto has already been posted right here on this thread courtesy of Oak.
It is in in the middle of his post. Open the link and click on continue shopping to view the price. Print it out and take it to the store if there's one nearby you.

Replacement spindle shaft and cup assemblies are very expensive. Difficult to find as well. The part # written on the new spare that I have is IH 473436 R92.
I'd recommend you start looking for another deck that is all rusted out to use as a parts doaner, in the long run it will help keep your costs down, it may probably even have pulleys in better condition on it than yours on it as well.

[Briandoss]

The link to the Timken made bearings from Rock Auto has already been posted right here on this thread courtesy of Oak.
It is in in the middle of his post. Open the link and click on continue shopping to view the price. Print it out and take it to the store if there's one nearby you.

Yes I pulled that one up.. I didn't see the LM11949 number and thought he might be showing a different newer model. I don't want to order the wrong sizes.


Replacement spindle shaft and cup assemblies are very expensive. Difficult to find as well. The part # written on the new spare that I have is IH 473436 R92.
I'd recommend you start looking for another deck that is all rusted out to use as a parts doaner, in the long run it will help keep your costs down, it may probably even have pulleys in better condition on it than yours on it as well.

Thanks.. Cub cadets are in short supply out here. For some reason there isn't much Cub Cadets or implements west of the Mississippi so finding a doaner will be slim to none. I have a couple sites I can check out as well as posting a want ad here. Thanks so much for all the info

[chzuck]

I would think that Ray Weaver would be a good source for good used spindles. I have purchased some in the past.
His info is here viewtopic.php?f=16&t=44

[Klapatta]

At this point you should be made aware that there are two different spindle lengths, one is 4 1/4" overall length, the other is 4 1/8" overall.
The longer one #473436 R92 is intended for the center spindle that is the driven dual pulley.

DSCN6905.JPG (277.28 KiB) Viewed 11600 times

The shorter 4 1/8" pulley is intended for the outer 2 driven single pulleys.
Sorry that I don't have that number on hand in front of me but I can find that out for you if necessary.
I'm pretty sure this is way it is- someone will come along if I'm wrong about this

[Briandoss]

Hmm.. I don't have a caliper that big but I put them all side by side and they all look the same, even with a straight edge across the top. If anything it looks like the center one was a hair shorter than the rest. Maybe this deck has been apart before and had any spindle the guy could find put in

[Klapatta]

It is sounding more and more like somebody had these units apart before. On the subject of the grease seals being installed backwards, every unit that I ever disassembled had the seal installed with the character markings facing outward. There is a school of thought that a few guys have followed up on stating the lower seal should be installed backward, the reasoning is that the unit will purge itself of dirt and water contamination out from the bottom during regular greasing. Actually, I suppose that's fairly sound reasoning however I've never actually tried it myself. If they are over greased the possibility of pushing the seal out actually does exist. These early units were very stout and overbuilt, in my own opinion the strongest of the lot that the factory offered. A few shots of grease after every mowing while still warm will keep them operational damn near forever.
Your spindle shafts are probably all 4 1/8", the short shaft will work in a pinch on the center hub, but the longer shaft would never work with the end hubs. Line them up again with your straight edge and measure them with a rule, I'm quite interested in knowing what they measure.
I have a spare set of the spindle shafts on hand however I'm not really sure that I'd want to let any of them go at this point, I'd have to take a closer look at what I do have.
Charlie's contact advise about Ray Weaver is very sound, I'm positive that he could hook you up with whatever it is that you may require. He prices very fairly, ships fast, and will send out the right part the first time.
We got another four inches of snow last night and right now I'd very much like to be mowing the grass instead of hibernating

[chzuck]

Grease seals: When a grease/oil seal is selected for an application one needs to decide the main purpose of the seal. Do I want to keep dirt out or keep the lubricant in. As you mentioned with both seals installed lip in the possibility of over-greasing and pushing the seals out is greater than if the lip is in. On the Cub spindles the factory install is the lip facing out as the scan below shows. If you push that bottom seal out you will never know it until you take it apart. I mow about 2 hrs/week and typically grease my deck in the spring each year. These are the best spindles they ever made in my opinion. Easy to rebuild and maintain.
My CPE-2 Parts Catalog shows all three spindle assembles the same for the 42" cast iron end decks. The part number for the 48" deck is different for the spindle assembly

Cub Spindle.jpg (112.28 KiB) Viewed 11580 times

[Briandoss]

I have a spare set of the spindle shafts on hand however I'm not really sure that I'd want to let any of them go at this point, I'd have to take a closer look at what I do have.
Charlie's contact advise about Ray Weaver is very sound, I'm positive that he could hook you up with whatever it is that you may require. He prices very fairly, ships fast, and will send out the right part the first time.
We got another four inches of snow last night and right now I'd very much like to be mowing the grass instead of hibernating

I found a great guy back there that hooked me up pretty well with parts, I'm getting spindles and pulleys.. I had to up the price he quoted because it was such a deal compared to anywhere else, I guess its a cub thing
As far as your snow... We're getting this stuff falling out of the sky here in central Ca. The old timers call it rain.. We've been hit by drought pretty hard out here for the last 10 years or so and the last 5 has been brutal. Our local lakes are down to mud or dry. We've had a great year so far, I think more rain since Sept. than the last few years total.

On the seals.. That's a great diagram, I will be referring back to it. Thats exactly as they came out.. Reverse to most other applications I've changed oil seals on.
Thanks to both you guys..

[chzuck]

Lots of manuals on this site. That scan was from a manual that includes the 147.

[Klapatta]

That would explain a lot Charlie, I had no idea that the 147 service manual covered mower decks.
Notice the way the seals are loaded, I have worked on at least 3 decks where the genuine IH numbered seals were facing the other way.
So far as I know we have no CPE-2 manual in the listings, is that correct?
Without that in front of me at this point I'm not sure if is suppose to take the 4 1/8'' or 4 1/4'' spindle.

[Klapatta]

OK, so farting around in the middle of night here I am.
Just found out about a security breach on of my credit cards so I'm not feeling very sleepy right now
Anyway, I opened the 71, 102,122,123 service manual.
Image clearly shows the seal installed with the marked steel side out.

DSCN6908.JPG (433.66 KiB) Viewed 11564 times

Whatsup with that? Did someone come along and decide to flip them later on?
I realize it's a pic of a 3pc cast end deck but why should that matter?

[chzuck]

Ken,
I just looked at a used seal and we are both correct. The seal is made that when installed with the printing up the lip is also pointing up. So if one installs the seal in the normal manner with the metal side out the lip will point out as well. Now the scanned illustration I have above would not accurately depict the seal I have. The seal I am looking at is a CR 530484.
Hope you make out OK with credit card issue.

[chzuck]

So far as I know we have no CPE-2 manual in the listings, is that correct?
Without that in front of me at this point I'm not sure if is suppose to take the 4 1/8'' or 4 1/4'' spindle.

I think you are right. I bought mine years ago from Binders Books. It does not specifically list you mower deck, but I assume it is identical to the 48" deck as far as all the components.

[Klapatta]

Thank you Charlie. By all accounts the matter is resolved. A firewall breach (or should I say lapse of) on a direct deposit account to checking on one of my laptops. Pretty spooky stuff.
Back to those seals. Just as a point in case to made regarding the last time that I priced them, the C/R from Napa and the O.E.M. one from CCC the actual Cub seal was a buck less each very much to my surprise.