Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

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DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

And more...
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And the pedestal had typical cracking problems... so I cut some steel plate to put inside
And the pedestal had typical cracking problems... so I cut some steel plate to put inside
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I ground and punched and broke out all the fasteners on the inside of the pedestal, and welded the plates into the inside
I ground and punched and broke out all the fasteners on the inside of the pedestal, and welded the plates into the inside
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And while that and the brace was cooling, I cut a piece of expanded steel for the grille
And while that and the brace was cooling, I cut a piece of expanded steel for the grille
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

And this morning:
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Assembled the two bracket pieces in-situ for a look-see... this will work...
Assembled the two bracket pieces in-situ for a look-see... this will work...
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Installed the brace in-situ, to check hose clearance.  I'll add the back piece, and shape this back a bit to give it more wiggle room to protect those hoses
Installed the brace in-situ, to check hose clearance. I'll add the back piece, and shape this back a bit to give it more wiggle room to protect those hoses
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And the pedestal fits in snug with those new plates.
And the pedestal fits in snug with those new plates.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
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First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

SO... we all know that the pedestal mounting bolts are a frequent area of fatigue. Some of it is because the operator is hangin' on the steering wheel. Some is because the machine twists on it's central axis (longitudinal), and some is because the machine flexes (bows) in the middle. The longitudinal flex on most isn't much of a problem, because there's very little longitudinal torsion on the frame... a little from drivetrain torque, but implement loading is basically nonexistant in this plane because the front axle pivot isolates torsion... the only part that isn't isolated, is a front blade or thrower, because it attaches at the front of the frame.

Bowing in the middle doesn't occur much, ,because there's not much vertical load carried by the frame.

Of course, these two forces are much greater when there's a front end loader installed.

My FEL is a Johnson Workhorse 20, and it's fully hydraulic, so it pushes, pulls, twists, and bends the chassis every which way. My loader frame was built to take the stresses AWAY from the chassis as much as possible... but still, there's lots of torsion and bowing moment applied to the frame when I'm working. 300lbs in that bucket, at 6' up, asks alot of the frame, and as you can see, I've addressed that with copious amounts of metal. Sometimes, to make something stronger, you need to make it thicker and heavier, and you can be certain that I'm not afraid to do so. Sometimes, it's better to make it so that things can FLEX. I exercise that too... but when things fatigue and fail, I change my plan.

In the pedestal, there's quite an opportunity for more abuse from the loader's frame stresses. By going to thicker metal, and welding it up high, it makes it much more rigid. I'll make it bolt to the frame as usual, but with the pedestal being more rigid, it may decide to break up faster... I'll just have to try it and see... perhaps the front-frame bracing will make the chassis rigid enough so that the pedestal flex will be lower... I don't know yet.

Reasoning for the funky pump bracket- that pump is NOT rated for a high overhanging load... meaning, one cannot put a pully 4" out away from that pump, and put a bunch of belt-tension on it... the pump bearings can't take that sideways load. They're designed for an axial load... meaning, hold the body, and twist the shaft.

Many years (15?) ago, I set up this pump with toothed-belt drive specifically because of the overhung load issue... toothed belt requires basically no belt tension, and I used large-diameter pulleys to get the belt tension angle way-far-away from centerline of the pump shaft, so that belt tension was going to generate more of a torque=result, than an overhung load.

In this iteration of drive, I wanted a stiffer plate mounted to the engine. I had the plate laser-cut out of heavier plate, but that plate was so thick that the pump reached almost a 1/4 shorter THROUGH the plate. So I mated the thinner pump-mounting face to the front of the thicker engine plate, overlapping several inches to make it rigid... and I have a little adjustability if I need it, but moreso, it's easy to disassemble to get the toothed-belt out, or get to the starter, exhaust, etc., fast when necessary.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

And by the way... only a few brave folks have asqued kwestshuns, so the rest'a 'yall must either know the answers, or are utilizing my thread here as a treatment for insomnia...

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...................................... :lol:
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

Klapatta
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First and Last Name: Kenneth LaPatta
Location: Rockingham VT.

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by Klapatta »

Their not sleepin Dave. Their dumbstruck or mesmorized :lol: I have been following, nice work.
Since your talking shop the biggest Cinncinnati that I ever ran was a #4 horizontal / vertical. But I know what a #5 is. ;)
What do you use that for, when your boring out your locomotive? :P
The EE's are sweeet machines. We have several Schaublin 102's in the Tool Room but my go to machine is still the Hardinge H-LV.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Not the locomotive, but perhaps I'll have to clean up the cylinders on the 50hp Flory hoisting engine in the back driveway. I'm hoping they're not too bad, but that project won't start 'till after the big shop building is up... I need the overhead crane, concrete floors, heat and light... I'm turning into such a sissy anymore. In the meantime, the #5 will securely hold the concrete slab to the earth... and if you're looking for my house, just place an old-fashioned compass on your dashboard... when you get within 5 miles, follow the needle. ;-)

The HL-V... it's like... well, for guys that aren't machine-tool guys... imagine pin-up pictures and centerfolds: The HL-V is a nicely grown equivalent of a 19-year-old woman... curvaceous and inviting, sensitive and accurate, but petite. The Monarch 10EE is like a 29 year old... more filled out, strong, and stable... functionally voluptuous... Both are wonderful machines to see, but unlike the well-airbrushed women, the lathe is as beautiful and sweet in real life... and usually even more, and they're just as beautiful in work clothes, dirty, oily, and making a mess. Nice thing is, you can have more than one lathe, and lathes don't get mad at you if you've got your hands on other lathes.

Bad part is, when you touch them wrong, they're like women- they bite, and their bite is very, very unforgiving. When you touch them wrong, or if you don't care for them, they WILL kill you swiftly... so treat them with respect.

My collectcion also includes a Lodge & Shipley 24 x 200" dating to around 1906, a 18" Sidney from 1915 or so, and a Rivett 2nd operation. One can never have enough lathes.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Last night's progress... well... sorta. I had one location flooded-out in Houston, one machine being repaired in North Dakota, one getting a new load-cell in Pennsylvania, and three ice-crews working in Wyoming and Idaho, so I was on the phone more than working...
Attachments
Okay, so I started by welding a bypass section to this brace, then checked clearance, then added a bypass section to the back, and clearanced out the front edge for hose clearance.  The V-twin is wider than the single, so my pump needed to be lower, hence, interfering with this bracket.
Okay, so I started by welding a bypass section to this brace, then checked clearance, then added a bypass section to the back, and clearanced out the front edge for hose clearance. The V-twin is wider than the single, so my pump needed to be lower, hence, interfering with this bracket.
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4" grinder with flap-disk makes ANYONE a sculptor of Steel...
4" grinder with flap-disk makes ANYONE a sculptor of Steel...
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And I was thinking that perhaps I should make a new occupation of building replica medeval weaponry...
And I was thinking that perhaps I should make a new occupation of building replica medeval weaponry...
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And THAT is what I wanted to see... plenty of room for the engine to wiggle around on the soft mounts... and for the loader and chassis to flex under load.
And THAT is what I wanted to see... plenty of room for the engine to wiggle around on the soft mounts... and for the loader and chassis to flex under load.
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Yep, I like that.
Yep, I like that.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Oh, and while I was doing all that...

I scrubbed the worst of the crud and excess weldment off the pedestal and hit it with a coat of whatever-white-paint I could find. Yes, the rosette welds aren't totally full, but they're more than sufficient to hold, and like I said- this one will shovel $#it in the parade, not sit in the shade...
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

And as you can see in the last brace picture, I've got the engine mounted in, PTO belt bracket in place- it's all installed and ready to rock. Today, I'll get the pedestal drilled, mounted, and some controls back in place (uh... the throttle...)... then I'll stick the steering wheel and bodywork back on, reconnect the loader, clamp on a temporary fuel tank, change the oil and give it a test-fire. I also need to drive the D17 next door and get my car hauler trailer, bring it here, cut off the damaged coupler, weld on a new one, so the neighbor can take his car (that's on it) to the junkyard. Mebbie I'll pull the 2L motor out of his car before it goes to junk (it still runs... why junk a good running motor?)
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
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Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Loader-Mutt Lives Again!!! :beer:
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Can't post a video here, but it's running... and the driveline is true as a laser, and smooth as silk!
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Gotta love a smooth-spinning driveline...
Gotta love a smooth-spinning driveline...
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Exhaust is clean, and engine sounds good...
Exhaust is clean, and engine sounds good...
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Throttle travel is limited by the hole size... apparently it was plenty for the K-motor, but for this engine, it wants another half-inch of handle motion, which the dashboard structure inhibited... so...
Throttle travel is limited by the hole size... apparently it was plenty for the K-motor, but for this engine, it wants another half-inch of handle motion, which the dashboard structure inhibited... so...
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I drilled out the corners a bit, then used a file to open them up a bit more...
I drilled out the corners a bit, then used a file to open them up a bit more...
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

And as an aside note...
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It was a great day to take a tractor ride over to the neighbor's farm to pick up my car trailer...
It was a great day to take a tractor ride over to the neighbor's farm to pick up my car trailer...
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And also- these so-called 'no spill' cans suck donkey feces.
And also- these so-called 'no spill' cans suck donkey feces.
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Not only does the spout explode gas in your face, the 'big mouth' filler neck is incompatible with any other type spout.<br /><br />The thing they do best, is find the bottom of the dumpster.  If you're going plastic, buy a Blitz can, and find the aftermarket 'replacement spout' that replaces the original 'safety type' that spills all over you.  The replacement includes a classic vent plug, just drill a hole, and push it in... and from that point, enjoy a can that only spills if you make it spill.
Not only does the spout explode gas in your face, the 'big mouth' filler neck is incompatible with any other type spout.

The thing they do best, is find the bottom of the dumpster. If you're going plastic, buy a Blitz can, and find the aftermarket 'replacement spout' that replaces the original 'safety type' that spills all over you. The replacement includes a classic vent plug, just drill a hole, and push it in... and from that point, enjoy a can that only spills if you make it spill.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Here's the latest... it doesn't take much to spruce up aold grille...
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grille.jpg
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

A.W.Gonya
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
Location: Arcadia, Ohio

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by A.W.Gonya »

Dave!


Good to see picture builds again!

Awestruck as always! And thinking my 1872 needs a better driveshaft...
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

I can arrange for the stronger driveshaft... it's the engine-coupling side that's the biggest challenge...

I was figurin' on getting all the wiring, etc., sorted out and operational today, but it turned out that I didn't get my obligatory day off after working night/on-call duty... short of manpower, my supervisor called me in to fill a chair and wear a phone, so I did... and he's right, he really needed it... we got hammered with calls all day. He says I can have Tuesday off instead...

So after dinner, I got a little done. I mounted the starter solenoid, made a battery cable from solenoid to starter. I made and installed a ground cable from block to frame (up front). I drilled holes through the pedestal for mounting the starter button, ignition switch, and light switch (more on this later).

I gotta gather some choice wire colors, terminals, and two switches tomorrow, and get this thing whipped into shape... at least, ready to move snow... Also need some 1/4" fuel line... and by end of day (if I don't get called in again)...
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Okay, so today I wired everything up... mounted the starter solenoid, control switches on the console (with fiberglass bodywork removed- more on this later)... I started it up just before SHE got home from work... pulled it out into the driveway. Feels a little weak, and sounds weak too... I put the IR thermometer on the left side exhaust port... 495F. Right side... 71F. I guess that answers my question!

Lifted the spark plug, and saw no sparky. Probably bad coil. Unfortunately, to replace a coil, one nees to remove the shroud which requires removing the engine.

Which is fine, because as I noted before (and is probably evident in photos), I have TWO of these 16hp Vanguards... the other one ran just fine, but I opened it up for inspection, and did not have gaskets to reassemble at that time... so I proceeded with this (black) one.

Just so happens that while I was busy soldering ring lugs, a delivery guy showed up and dropped off a box of B&S gaskets and seals. Now that the Mutt is out of the garage (parked in the driveway) I'll reassemble the RED engine, get it happenin' and happy, then drive the Mutt back in, and do an engine change. While I have the engine out (again), I'll tidy up the wiring path with clamps and supports.

In many ways, I'm actually glad it's not firing on one cylinder, because I was somewhat disappointed in it's power. Knowing that it'll have twice the torque will be a very welcome thing. :D
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
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Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

Bah!

Okay, so I checked the obvious... initially, I thought it was a no-spark situation. I got a spare plug, put it in the boot, grounded it to the block, and started it up. Pretty blue sparky.

Pulled out the plug, perhaps the electrode is shorted, and noticed gasoline in the cylinder... rolled it over by hand... and the gasoline level didn't change.

Slipped a 1/4" drive extension in there, felt piston, and gave it a push. Yep... something wrong inside. Crap.

Looks like I'll take this engine out, and put the other one in... :roll:

Fortunately, some gaskets and a seal just arrived for the OTHER Vanguard that I have on hand.

I suspect this one had a piston failure, because the rod isn't bangin' around. I'll figure it out... if it's saveable, I'll put it back in biz somehow, but getting the machine operational is first priority.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
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First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

It was a busy day for me today... actually, the whole darned week will be... but I managed to sneak out of the office an hour early, and with that extra time, I got the red Vanguard cleaned of old gasket material, I opened up the oil pump and cleaned out a little spec of debris that was in it, put that all back together, and reassembled the crankcase cover, the shrouding... basically everything.

Nothing going on my schedule for tomorrow night, so I'll back the machine back in, unhook the loader, pull off fuel tank and grille, disconnect and extract the half-running motor, put in the red one, and mebbie... just mebbie... if I'm moving fast (and don't hafta spend 40 minutes looking for my wayward 10mm 1/4" drive socket...) I'll have her back together and running again.

At least I know everything will fit... :lol:
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Success!!!

Post by DaveKamp »

Success!!!

Got the red engine reassembled, with new pan gasket, crankshaft seal, and exhaust flange gaskets, moved the oil filter bracket from black to red engine, new oil filter and oil. Initially had some difficulty getting it to run right... it wanted to hunt pretty bad, and obviously running lean, so I pulled top off the carb and cleaned it out good... it's impossible to get the carb off these things easily without taking the shroud off one side, and some tinwork and crap off the other... but I ground an extra hex-key into a flat screwdriver, and backed the main jet out, picked it out with a pair of hemostats and my illuminated cheater glasses (the older man's secret weapons...) and spent some quality time with the torch-tip cleaner scrubbin' it, and the emulsion tubes out. A little carb cleaner, compressed air, etc, and it's happy now. I did have the carb overflow once, I figured it out before cranking the engine- took out the plugs and blew the cylinders and intake clean, then put 'em back and fired it up, took it outside for a zip down the driveway and back.

The Vanguard 16 seems nicely strong. I'd LIKE a 23, but I happened to have an 16, so I used a 16... and it's plenty strong. Once I have the bucket really buried, I'll know how it's working torque compares in this application to the (well built) K-301... I'm fairly certain the K301 with extra compression had more torque when lugged down, but perhaps the 16 will keep it up high enough so that difference won't appear much.

The sound is excellent... it's not too loud, and this muffler's internal baffles are basically gone... it's an empty can inside, but does a good job of containing the worst of the racket, without reminding you that it's a V-twin. It's substantially smoother than the K-single... and starts a WHOLE lot better... I suppose that's not fair... the hard-cranking nature of Mutt's previous motor was MY fault... :twisted:

But happy to say it's in the realm of working-class again.

I have a couple more little things to attend to... get a voltage regulator installed, so it charges it's own battery... I never did 'finish' the control treadle with toe and heel pads... that will get done... a return-to-neutral spring and detent mechanism, and under the right foot, two brake pedals... one for left, and one for right... footboards (the original footboard layout had to be removed because the loader arm stanchions were in-the-way), and Finally, LED lights in the nosepiece, perhaps some small floodlamps on the bracketry facing right and left angles forward, and another out back, marker lights in the fenders, and finally, a removable canopy with front and rear floodlights...

But for now, she's working, and I've got stuff to move so I can get the old TIG welder reassembled, on a rolling dolly, fitted with it's torch cooler and gas bottle... one of the HSS tool grinders needs spindle reinstalled, painted, and reassembled... and Ann's car has a sticky brake caliper...
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

PTWannaHave
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Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by PTWannaHave »

Congrats! Great, mind-blowing/mesmerizing thread!! :shock:
PTWannaHave

DaveKamp
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Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

And some pictures from this morning... yep, it's running...
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

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BigMike
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Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by BigMike »

Looks like you done good Dave.

DaveKamp
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Re: Loader-Mutt Lung Transplant

Post by DaveKamp »

After doing all this work, I was vexed by the Vanguard's carbeuration and fuel-feed system. I worked all through summer without a functioning loader-tractor, and when September rolled around, I decided I'd had enough, and went out and bought a brand-new Honda GX-630. If you'd like to see how that turned out, look in the CUSTOM CORNER section under Loader-Mutt... Revision 3.1

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7397
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

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