451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

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Eden
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:55 am
First and Last Name: Mr. Eden Pulchinski
Location: Holland Landing, Ontario Canada

451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Eden »

Hi guys, I was reading the thread about the 451 snow blower and that is the model that I have as well. I have the same problem that the blower does not move snow very well at all because of a small PTO size (not the 6"). Does any one know the part number I would need to purchase a new or used 6" PTO for a model 2072 Garden Tractor... the normal part # for the PTO on the 2072 is a 717-3043 or 917-3043. The engine is a 20hp Kohler Model "M20S" Spec# 49512, S/N#1830911206.

Any input would be great! :)
Your only here once.... last time I checked!

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Tom Scott
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Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Tom Scott »

Eden - The pto you need should be part number 717-3340, which is a 6.05" outside diameter. Your current pto is 4.6" in diameter if it is the older small one.

You will see a huge difference in the snow blowing ability with the correct pto! That thing will throw over 40' in the right conditions. If you use any other attachments with the front pto you will have to change the input pulleys on them to slow the rpm back down to where it should be. As we discussed in the other threads, some of the decks were offered with both pto's so the double stack pulley is easy (but can be pricey...) to change.

Ray Weaver and Rich Patton are just two names from this site that may be able to provide used replacements. The parts sites are invaluable for researching this stuff as well.

Let us know how it works out.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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Eden
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:55 am
First and Last Name: Mr. Eden Pulchinski
Location: Holland Landing, Ontario Canada

Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Eden »

Hey thanks Guy's. That's just the info I needed! I love this site... I'm ordering up a used 717-3340 from the cub cadet warehouse as they had one in stock.

I will have to change out the PTO's when I put my deck on in the summer so my next question is .... How difficult is it to change out PTO's having never done it before???? :cry:

Thanks again and yes this 451 thing is crazy... I just thought that the double stage blowers... well.. blew! As I saw a single stage on the internet blow the heck out of snow and my 451 just moved snow 5-10' at best...

Eden
Your only here once.... last time I checked!

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Tom Scott
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Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Tom Scott »

Eden - What deck do you have? You may be able to change the deck double stack pulley to make it work correctly with the large pto. Or you could buy/sell/trade/swap to get a deck that works with the large pto...

If the tag is still on the deck you have, get us the model number.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
<><

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Farmallgray
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First and Last Name: Todd Markle
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Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Farmallgray »

I just had a phone conversation with my Dad and this subject came up. As many of you know my Dad and I both worked at several different CC dealerships over the years including one owned by our family. Anyhow, Dad was working for a dealer in the period when the change was made to the larger PTO and he has a memory like an elephant. He said that they changed gearboxes on a few of the later blowers to put them on earlier tractors, but they sold quite a few that they didn't change. The CC tech guys told him that it wouldn't make much difference and it didn't. He said instead of throwing the snow 40 feet, it may only throw it 30 feet which should be acceptable for most people. Now I mentioned to him there was someone on here who said theirs is only throwing 5-10 feet. He suggested that maybe the engine on that tractor isn't running at the right speed or the governor isn't working properly. They need to be running at 3600 rpm at wide open throttle and hold that rpm when under load. I can recall most of these tractors came from the factory only turning 2800-3000 rpms. That can make a BIG difference and can also greatly affect mower performance. Part of the pre-delivery check was to check the engine rpms. Many dealers didn't do this because tachs weren't as cheap or readily available as they are now. Maybe it would be worth a try to see how it works with the old one before dumping a couple Franklins on a new clutch.

My single stage throws 10-20 feet and that is usually adequate to get the snow out of the way even when we have bad winters.
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Tom Scott
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Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Tom Scott »

I was one of the dummys that made this mistake before these things became a hobby. A guy was selling it, it fit the tractor, what could go wrong... :oops:

And yes, I found out later when I got a tach that the tractor I tried the 451 on was adjusted low on rpm, compounding the problem. But looking at the numbers...

A 4.6" pto provides approximately 25% less rpm than it should to the 451, even if the engine is tuned up to the full 3600 rpm. And...we all like to advertise how far our great throwers will throw, but I only get 40' plus in ideal conditions. Mushy snow, or even fighting the wind with powdery snow (combined with a parking pad area that is wide) has me looking for all the distance/force I can get. With mush snow sometimes I am lucky to get 20' with the correct 450/4.6" pto combo and full rpm.

So, for myself, I just can't live with the incorrect combo.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
<><

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Eden
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:55 am
First and Last Name: Mr. Eden Pulchinski
Location: Holland Landing, Ontario Canada

Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Eden »

Okay... now we are getting some place... I do believe that the engine is running at a high RPM as the Deck sure spins almost two fast with the small PTO at full throttle (really gets ratling and loud) plus you just can hear that engine winde up good and know you would not want it to work any harder (as you can tell from my plethera of explanation I don't have a tach!).

The Deck is a 50C (190-359) so I don't know if anyone has any ideas about finding a double size Spindle for it?????? :P

Last year I used this 451 on the 2072 in Southern Ontario and we get mostly wet crapy snow with slush and it did okay on my small drive way but..... This winter I'm am moving it up to a cottage in Nothern Ontario just on the East side of Georgian Bay (Great lakes) and they get hammered with an average of 6-12' of snow each winter. With that said and the size of the drive way and width that it has to clear I really want every foot out of this rig that it can give me (without working it to death). I have ordered the big PTO and probably will not get it until I have a couple snow storms under the small PTO.

Thanks for the info on the install??? Sounds pretty simple and should only take 1/2 hour (with cold hands in a cold shop).

Any info on the deck would be great! :?:

Take care
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Farmallgray
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Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Farmallgray »

Eden,
Apparently CCC never offered the 50" deck on the tractors with the larger PTO. I looked at the parts list for the 54" deck and it has the input pulley on the center spindle just like the 50" does. So if the lower sheave is the same diameter then it should work.
If you have the rebuildable spindles you may have to change the shaft. If you have the older style spindles you may have to change to the rebuildable one with the longer shaft.

Maybe Ray W can chime in here and add some info.

You could run the engine a little slower when mowing, but that isn't real good for the engine. If it were my own project, I'd try come up with a way to change the pulley on the snowblower.
See my IH, Cub Cadet and tractor pulling youtube videos;
http://www.youtube.com/user/farmallgray

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Eden
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:55 am
First and Last Name: Mr. Eden Pulchinski
Location: Holland Landing, Ontario Canada

Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Eden »

Thanks Tod, would love to change the gearbox to a 450 vs a 451 but I think the cost and that I just don't have the suppliers you guys have in the U.S. could make this difficult.... does anyone have a 450 gear box with spindle for sale .... CHEAPPPPP..... as I'm already in for the PTO that I have ordered!

Thanks again guys. :)

Eden
Your only here once.... last time I checked!

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red82s
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First and Last Name: Adrian Gitch
Location: Paris, KY

Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by red82s »

Eden maybe between now and next summer you can snag another cub cadet and use that one for mowing duty then you wouldn't have to potentially swap pto's. It would be a good excuse to get another one! I've really learned alot by reading your guys' posts. Wish I had a reason to get one down here.
Adrian

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Eden
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:55 am
First and Last Name: Mr. Eden Pulchinski
Location: Holland Landing, Ontario Canada

Re: 451 Snow Blower and a 2072 tractor

Post by Eden »

red82s wrote:Eden maybe between now and next summer you can snag another cub cadet and use that one for mowing duty then you wouldn't have to potentially swap pto's. It would be a good excuse to get another one! I've really learned alot by reading your guys' posts. Wish I had a reason to get one down here.
I would love to but the problem is I already have another IH 782 with the 44C deck and the wife is starting to wonder what the heck I'm up to with all the tractors...( I loan the 782 out to a buddy down the road during the summer and am going to use the 782 this winter with a Johnny Bucket plow for around the house this winter). My lawn is lots of turns to get done so the 2072 with power steering makes it nicer than the 782 without. The 2072 is heading up to my cottage to blow snow for the winter but I'm pretty sure i will want it for cutting again in the spring.

I was hoping to get a Argo for the cottage as well and with that plus two tractors things are adding up. May have to start up a dealership if I keep going like this. :lol:
Your only here once.... last time I checked!

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