1450 Plow Blade Lift Anemic

[Hydro]

Hello CC Forum,
My blade will only lift about 2” from grade, drilled a hole lower on the lift arm which gets it to about 8” but of course it will now not drop down to grade so not completely scraping snow. I’m sure there’s a post somewhere here on this but could not find so apologies if this has already been covered. SN 2050066U540019 if that helps.

Any help from you folks is much appreciated.

Thanks, Hydro

[dag1450]

John....There r a lot of variables when dealing with Cub attachments. Unless they came as a set from the dealer when new.....U have no idea if what u ended up with was designed for your tractor or not. From my limited knowledge.....Most time u can get the said attachment to mount but get the attachment dialed in is the frustrating part for many. With front blades many time the lift rods go missing and people just grab any old white one and think it the right one. So that what I'm leaning towards....The lift rod length. In a jam a piece of chain can work well and it's easy to dial in the right length by bolting though different links. Post some pictures of your set up.....This might help. Maybe give your lift rod length and someone can verify.

[Hydro]

Dave, thanks for your reply-
Blade is IH issue 54" assembly, any lengthening of the rod will result in less lift, any shortening will result in more lift but with blade not dropping to grade. There is about 4-1/2" of play in the lift handle so I'm going to get into that later to see if the valve rod is maybe not being fully extracted.
John

Forgot: Rod is 28-1/2" to CL of 90 deg bends.

[ksanders]

Have you taken the tunnel cover off in front of the seat and watched the lift work up and down on the rockshaft? Maybe it has a sheared pin or something and isn't getting the full travel.

[Hydro]

Yes I had, it appears to be moving properly but without knowing the amount of normal travel I don't know if it's within spec. I took the play out of the lift arm as I stated above & it's now about 1-1/2" (roll pin holding the lever arm had worked loose) but no improvement in blade lift.

[dag1450]

Yea that cross bar that the hydraulic cylinder attaches and the mower deck mule hangs on to is called the rockshaft. Does your tractor have hydraulics? It sounds like u may have been eluding to a lift lever and not a hydraulic lever?

[OhioBinder]

The depth stop cam on the right side of the the tunnel isn't limiting the travel somehow is it?
On my 149 I had very limited travel on the lift and the spiral pin that locked the cylinder lift lever to the rockshaft was partially shore off. Replaced it and gained my lift back. And it takes a spiral pin not a roll pin.

[Hydro]

Thanks for the replies folks:
dag1450,
It’s a 1450 with hydraulics. The lift arm I mistakenly referred to, I meant to say valve handle, that had a lot of play. There’s a roll pin that secures the lever arm #4 to the valve handle shaft that had worked loose to a point where it was catching only the edge of the hole in the shaft. I got it back to its full position & secured it with a piece of SS wire threaded thru its center & twisted tightly around the shaft. But that was not affecting lift travel—only about an inch of play now in the valve handle but still no increase over the 2” blade lift.
OhioBinder,
No, depth stop cam was not engaged so no issue there. All spiral pins in rockshaft are tight with no play & lift cylinder shaft is making full travel.

[ksanders]

At this point can you post a picture of the rockshaft, lift rod attached to the tractor, and lift rod attached to blade? Maybe we'll see something that doesn't look right that would otherwise never cross anyone's mind?

[OhioBinder]

That should be a spiral pin and not a roll pin in the control lever. Much stronger. The fact that it does work points the problem elswhere. The play may affect the speed but really can't limit the travel of the cylinder. Even if the valve only opened a tiny amount in either dirrection the lift cylinder would eventually go its full travel.
You need to remove the tunnel cover (4 capscrews) andand watch the action of the rockstar. Particularly where the cylinder connects. That part is connected with a spiral pin to the rock shaft. These have a history of partially shearing off and not moving the rock shaft the full distance.. Put your blade lift rod back in its original position so it goes from no load to load. Becarefull in there when its running and keep your hands away from the driveshaft and fan.

[JLazar]

Hello guys! I'm only posting to report that I have the very same problem with my 1450. Mine is a single stick lever. I watch the hydraulic travel with the frame cover off, and that looks like I have full travel, and full retract. I have no lock out pin. Same 2" blade lift from grade, so this must be a common issue. No lift bracket on the blade frame looks replaced, and clearly clears the right front corner of the tractor frame. Now, I have full travel when I have the IH mower deck ( anyone of the size decks I have ) if that means anything. I switched my blade to another IH Cub Cadet and problem solved, but that bothers me anyhow.

Sorry for the speech. Hope this common problem gets figured out.

[dag1450]

Well....We need to know what other guys r getting for lift out of there blades. I think weather man Paul has a blade on his 1650. Maybe guys with quite lines can weigh in.

[OhioBinder]

John
Here is what I would do. Take the tunnel cover off and with engine off put a big wrench be it pipe, cresent, channel lock or whatever on the "yoke" on the end of the rock shaft on the right side of the tunnel and try to move it both ways. Any play in any of the connection will allow some loss of lift. There should be absolutely no play.
My 149 will pick my blade up about6-7 inches. Really all the same parts as the 1450. The blade subframes. On the 42 and 54 blades are the same as well I believe.
Now my 1650 will pick the 54 blade up about 8-9" and put down pressure and pick the front wheels off the ground. But it doesn't count as it is modified some. Tractor has 3 hydraulic levers and an additional cylinder under the tractor. Dang I need to get that 1450 done so I get get this one back from my son.79thi

[JMotuzick]

As been said a few times now the 5/16 pin on the lift bracket to rock shaft is sheared I just changed one out mid snow storm durning that 16"/8" weekend we had back mid February.

[Hydro]

David & forum thanks, this is what I’ve come up with so far--been busy today:

All pins & fittings on rockshaft #1 & plate #6 are tight, there is no play. Appears the problem could lay where the lift arm #3 & the clevis arm #7 meet up. It does appear that the top leading edge of the lift arm is worn/rounded a bit. I did not want to modify the clevis & lift arms since that might be a normal interface (doubt it though) & worried about doing something that could not be undone. So made up a plate from ¼” stock & rearranged the eccentric a bit—getting 6” lift now which is fine with me. Anybody here that can tell me about that clevis & lift arm joint would be appreciated since I’d rather modify them for proper fit if that is indeed the case so that they are operating as originally designed.

As you can see in pics mine is gravity drop, single lever machine…..that 1650 sounds pretty cool.

[OhioBinder]

If you don't have the lockout pin in #9 there is play it's called float. It allows whatever is hanging on your tractor to raise up rather than Bearing the weight of the tractor. With blade on the ground you can pick up for the full travel if you are strong enough if the pin is out. If the pin is in you would pick up the front of the tractor.
That plate you have on the end of the lift really changes the geometry of the lift.
Did you put a wrench on the rock shaft and on the yokes and try to force them to move? It won't be an obyios sloppy movement. A partially shore off spiral pin will allow it to move under load but appears tight when tested by hand.

[OhioBinder]

I should also add that if you had blocking pin in and you run your blade up onto something like a pile of packed snow your lift rod would take on a new shape with a big bow in it.

[Hydro]

Yes, I am aware of float, no lock out pin in use, no lift rod bow, thank you! Plow used strictly for snow. I can easily lift the blade by hand (but not the tractor:) I moved the lift lever in short spurts & looking at the rockshaft it moved but the clevis arm did not until the rockshaft rotated about 1/4", after that the clevis began to rotate & lift the blade. The tip of the lift arm seems to tuck under the clevis arm until it picks it up near the mid-point of those angled seats which I think is the problem here. You can see the contact point a bit shiny down near the middle of clevis arm in the photos I posted. That's were I think the play is. Shouldn't those two surfaces meet flat on?

Yes, geometry changes. I have it back enough to increase lift but high enough so that leverage is maintained so not too much strain on lift components (I hope).

I'll put some torque on it tomorrow with a tool as you suggest & post the results.

[OhioBinder]

The round end of the lift arm is made that way. Has no effect. The end of the lift arm has an angle on it. The spacer between the Clevis links has the same angle. They meet to provide lift.

[OhioBinder]

There will be slack there at the end of the lift cylinder Clovis under normal set up will allow blade to drop below grade some. Otherwise you would be picking the blade off the ground when the front tires drove over a bump.

[Hydro]

Put a large water pump plier on the rockshaft lift arm & one on the outer lever arm (plow lift rod not connected) checking for movement. There is no play there. The only slop I see is as I mentioned prior, where the clevis & lift arm mate at that inner angled seat. Anyway, I’m good with the 6” lift I’m now getting with that plate I made up for the outer lever arm, works fine. Just for the heck of it, & because I can never seem to leave well enough alone, I wedged a 1/8” cotter pin into that sloppy clevis/lift arm joint (temporary of course). Got another inch of lift. Maybe this spring with nothing else to do I’ll braze or weld a 1/8” strip to the angled seat in the clevis—maybe not.

Thanks again for all the input.

[JLazar]

Glad you came up with a solution Hydro! Had to log in to understand whats being described. I'm itching for warmer weather to tear down my 1450 for a problem, and a good clean up. I will refer back to this information. Thank you for having me sit around your camp fire!

[Hydro]

Forum, following, I hope, corrects some erroneous but inadvertent conclusions I had in an earlier post to this thread--apologies if I caused any confusion.

Had just finished plowing out from Tuesday nor’easter, lift was working fine, when blade suddenly dropped to grade with zero lift, uh-oh. Pulled shaft cover & cause was obvious: right hand lift arm was rotated full up, left hand arm full down. OhioBinder’s advice validated. I should have known, since when working in there earlier that the right & left lift arms were not exactly aligned as they should be but ignored it--that should have been a sure sign. What had happened—apparent now—was that the Spirol pin was partially sheared at the top of the bushing but still in place but deformed & stuck in the bushing so seemed OK. Just that I remembered that the right lift arm was in a very slightly higher position than the left & THAT should have been my clue. When the blade dropped that top piece of the pin fully sheared & dislodged so now I’m looking at a hole.

When I tested the arm movement, as OhioBinder suggested, it was rock solid so seemed OK but clue should have been the slightly misaligned arms which I had ignored.
Fun part was rotating that arm so that the pin holes were aligned & I could drive remainder of the pin out without wrecking the shaft & bushing—it was stuck solid with a now really deformed lower part of the pin lodged in place & tip of sheared-off top part (could only see part of it) wedged between rock shaft & lift arm bushing. Finally got it to rotate with an Urko clamp: one jaw on the top of the lift arm & the other grabbing top of the plate I had bolted to the outer arm #6--I could then cleanly drive the pin out.

I’ve ordered replacement & spare Spirol pins but temporarily used an 8 grade 5/16 x 1-1/2” bolt & now getting an easy over 8” lift with the modified arm plate.

It was a lesson learned & before I began modifying that clevis/lift arm joint which, apparently now, is as it should be & probably not to be messed with.

[BigMike]

I got so tired of breaking pins in the 1450 I used to have I welded the dam thing.......never broke again
Glad you got it figured out and back in service

[Hydro]

Just figured the Spirol was there to absorb shock….maybe I’ll stay with the bolt?

[Tom Scott]

John - You are correct about the shock absorption capabilities of coiled spring pins. (BTW, for anyone perusing the thread, "Spirol" is a brand name that we use generically for coiled spring pins like saying "Kleenex" for tissues.)

Here is a blurb from the Spirol design guide:

"In dynamic assemblies, impact loading and wear often lead to failure. Coiled Pins
are designed to remain flexible after installation and are an active component within
the assembly. The Coiled Pin’s ability to dampen shock/impact loads and vibration
prevents hole damage and ultimately prolongs the useful life of an assembly."

I'm not sure if Cub used standard or heavy duty coiled spring pins in this application, but McMaster-Carr offers both. Sometimes a smaller Spirol pin can be inserted in a larger one to increase strength.

I would not just leave the bolt in. You will not have the "active" component of the coiled spring pin with a bolt, and will eventually egg the hole out.

For the Spirol pin to remain an active component, we need to keep the rust demons away. When I install Spirols, I mash some anti-sieze compound into them from the ends and coat them when installing. If the pin rusts, it will lose its ability to coil and uncoil in operation.

Here is a link to the Spirol design guide, lots of good info if you're a hardware geek like me:
https://www.spirol.com/library/main_cat ... ide-us.pdf

With McMaster-Carr you will have to buy some standard quantity (10, 20, 50 etc.) but it won't be much more money than buying just one pin from Cub. Gotta love McMaster, lots of good hard to find stuff there. They ship quick and only charge actual shipping cost from what I have seen.
Link: https://www.mcmaster.com/#coiled-spring-pins/=16ucxud

I would go for the heavy duty pins (but not stainless, stainless doesn't usually have good strength properties).

Good discussion, fun stuff!

[Hydro]

Tom,
Thanks for the info & confirmation on the coiled spring pin use & purpose. I mentioned Spirol brand since their standards looked pretty rigid & is what I had ordered--yes, did not know either what grade IH used originally but went with the heavy duty.
These folks have the Spirol brand & ship small quantities--usually arrive in only a few days: https://www.prospectfastener.com/124084/Category/Pins

[dag1450]

Tom not recommending ss?? I think he has a little stainless steel shrine in his basement.
I saw the other day they now r making home water heaters with a stainless tank..... Sweet!
Glad u got the 1450 figured out

[Hydro]

I replaced the sheared rockshaft pin today with a Spirol brand heavy duty one. The 5/16” grade 8 temporary bolt that I had installed was a bit pesky to pull out. Turns out I found a bit of a kink in it when finally removed, & that was with light blade work—so much for that super-duper grade 8 bolt. Confirms the use of a high grade HD coiled spring pin by IH & replacement with a like part. I'm guessing the shock absorbing properties of the pin protects it from deforming as well as reducing stress on the rockshaft components.

[Tom Scott]

John - Good job getting it figured out, and kudos to you for following up with the right part!