Loader Mutt Continues...

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DaveKamp
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First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Then I reassembled the works, and snugged a bolt in the already-ready hole. Once again, I 'mark' drilled the remaining two holes, then changed to the tap-sized drill, drilled through both, then disassembled, drilled the top for proper bolt clearance, then tapped the filler... then scrubbed off the burrs and assembled the works again.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

And here it is, bolted together, as seen from the side internal to the transaxle...
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
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Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

And here it is, in-situ, on the transaxle housing....
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
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Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Now, the next step, will be to position the cup properly, and then mark and drill holes for the bolts (studs actually) that will retain this assembly, AND the axle tubes, onto the transaxle.

The original fitment used bolts in all positions. The top two bolts secured the transaxle to the frame. If I put studs EVERYWHERE, then I won't have such an easy time of installing this bugger into the (basically only) unadulterated area of the original IHCC chassis. As a result of this 'different' setup, I will have to address how the chassis mounts to the transaxle, but this is Loader-Mutt, so we can expect that it will be getting some 'outside-the-box' frame alterations, and I'll take advantage of the new axle tubes to provide additional strength, and try to get load displaced as far from those studs as possible. I'll 'blow up that bridge when I get to it'.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

By the way...

The lathe you see in these pictures, is my Monarch 10EE. Built in 1942, it was originally shipped to 'Ford Motor Company, Dosset, Tennessee". When I acquired it through the Rock Island Arsenal, it had an ONRL sticker indicating "NO LONGER RADIOACTIVE". Hmmm... well, I bought it from the DRMO auction despite it's label "Uneconomical to repair". It was a motor-generator drive unit (Ward-Leonard design, where a 3ph AC motor drove several DC generators, and used field and armature voltage control to yield total spindle speed variable control. I used it in original configuration for about 16 years, until one day one of the contactors totally burned up. it had a variety of other drive problems, I just happened to have a perfect candidate for a new spindle motor that was 10hp 3phase 480v, as well as 480:240v 7kva transformer and a 10hp Allen Bradley 1336 (original) variable frequency drive. I set up this combination so that 240v single phase comes in through a power control contactor, then to the transformer's 240v secondary. This yields 480v single-phase on it's primary, which I've connected to L1 and L3 of the VFD, which rectifies, then generates the variable-frequency 3ph which drives the spindle motor. I had to eliminate the original flat-belt (from DC drive), my choice was to use a Gates Polychain toothed belt with a 3:1 reduction, and I set up the VFD to run from 0 to 200hz. or so. My top spindle speed is about 3800rpm, but I rarey need to spin that fast... most of the time, the motor is running fairly slow. It has mountains (HUGE mountains) of torque... if I make a bad choice, it WILL tear my arms right off... so I keep my body close to the E-stop button at all times.

I have a half-dozen different chuck/faceplate options, which includes a 5C collet nose and drawbar, 3 jaw timed, and 4-jaw independant chucks. The toolpost is a Phase-II BXA-class, with about a half-dozen tool holders. I need to acquire a few more. I have a homemade toolpost grinder, knurling tool, and am working on a power hacksaw to take place of the parting tool... but it's not high on my priority list right now.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

The mill is a Bridgeport J, and it has a fairly small table with not much travel... which is a bummer when I need to face the cylinder head of an inline six, but it'll manage a four cyl, and because of the smaller table, it's operational footprint is much smaller, so it fits in well in a crowded shop environment. This one originally came to me from a Rock Island Arsenal DRMO auction with an M-head with a Morse #2 drawbar taper and a drill chuck. The M-head had no backgear, no power downfeed, and no motor. I adapted a reduction belt sheave setup to it, so that it could serve as a low-speed drill, but the lack of a substantial taper made it very limited for serious milling. I don't remember who put it this way, but when I started researching it, a machinist noted that the M head was so limited that it 'wouldn't cut stiff cheese'. Well, it was more likely intended for making patterns with hardwoods, and working soft metals, not steel.

Anyway, I managed to acquire a complete J-head, which I mounted on this chassis. It came with a stock Bridgeport 3-phase 230v 'pancake' motor and step-pulley sheave system. I have it basically 'permanently' set (meaning, I never change it) center sheave, and it's powered by an Allen-Bradley 1305 VFD in a metal case mounted to the side of the base. Like the other machines, I feed it 240v single phase, the VFD converts it into variable frequency 3-phase. I have it programed for zero-to-full speed, but I wasn't able to go above 200hz... IIRC I had to limit it to about 190hz or so, as the Bridgeport motor has quite a bit of iron... and lots of reactance. AC induction motors are designed to run at a specific frequencies, Most 3ph motors will run above and below that frequency, some are really amicable to wide frequency ranges, but the Bridgeport pancake motor in my J-head doesn't seem to like it... as the VFD will 'fault out' when I try to push that motor outside the range... but no matter, between the direct-drive range, and the J-head's backgear, the VFD will put it at any speed I need to operate.

And another note- on all my machine tools, I have dynamic braking set up to aggressively stop any machine in the event that I hit the E-stop, or remove my foot from the pedal. The lathe, for example... if it's spinning at 1000rpm in a cut, and I remove my foot, it will stop most workpieces in less than 1 turn. The drill will stop in less than a quarter-turn. The Bridgeport pancake motor doesn't stop as quick from high speed, but 3 turns at high speed and a half turn at low speed. I have it this way for obvious safety reasons, but it's important to note on lathes, that the Monarch 10EE uses a 3-pin 'D' mount spindle, rather than a thread-in spindle. Lathes that have a threaded spindle nose are at a disadvantage under braking, because the inertia of a spinning chuck and workpiece, when the spindle is brought to a quick stop, will cause the chuck to unthread from the spindle nose, continue spinning while falling on the bed, and then hop off and want to jump into your face... so before you set up your lathe with braking like I've set up mine, make sure the spindle nose cannot unthread unintentionally.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Okay, so back to the task... which is, to precisely locate and drill six holes in the sideplate. Note that these holes are NOT in geometrically regular positions, there are two at the bottom close spaced, the front and rear are centered, and the top two are wider.... so this isn't a case where we can just measure and layout. We also need to maintain coaxial relationship between the bearing cup and differential, which the filler plate (bolted to back by cup) will enforce... all we need is a way to slip it into position, then mark the holes.

now, many would use ink, or some other method... here's my favorite. I use a center-punch that THREADS into the casting. I start with three grade 8 bolts, get a rough depth measurement, and mark and cut 'em
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Then I chuck 'em in the Universal Handheld Tool-less Cordless Lathe... and grind a nice center point to them....
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Then I thread them in three holes... well-spread-out. Notice I'm using an adjustable wrench- after I ground a point, I ground flats on right and left side... ;)

This leaves just enough protruding, and the filler plate engaged enough, so that when I place the plate on top, the points WILL properly identify where holes should be.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

And here's what it looks like once I've set the plate on.

Now, I've only used THREE, because Three Points Defines A Plane. using any other quantity would result in a 'teeter.

Now, once in place, I rotated the assembly to put the bearing cup drain hole in the proper position, then I ever-so-gently whacked the plate with ball-peen hammer directly over ONE (but not all three) of the center-punches.... and it left this nice little dimple. I only did this one... stay tuned for the reason why.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
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First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Okay, so one dimple, I lift the plate out, take it to the drill, and use a 'spotting drill' (funny looking bit) to put a very well-defined and precise path for a normal twist-drill bit. the spotting drill is easy to see around, and being short and fat, is very rigid- it WANTS to go where that punch-mark is... a normal bit would want to wander elsewhere.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Now that I have ONE hole, I will reinstall the plate onto the housing... with one bolt in place, the clocking (rotation) of the part is very securely restrained. Notice it's a long bolt... I didn't have to tighten it down, just keep it from rotating. I placed a small piece of square stock under the bolt to make the plate parallel to the two remaining center punches.

Once in place, I used a marker to identify where the remaining remaining punches were, and slapped it with my hammer.

This second picture shows where the two new punch marks are. At this point, I relocated the two existing punches, and my third (from the first hole) into the remaining three unmarked positions, reinstalled the clocking bolt, and marked and tapped the last three spots, then flipped and circled with marker.

I used the spotting drill to make a good start, then finish drilled with conventional bit, and cleaned up the burrs from drilling.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Then I assembled it proper, with all shims installed, and snugged the bolts enough to get an idea of just-how-close my accuracy was in measurement, machinework, and math. The bolts will snug down fully, and there's enough preload on the bearings to bind the carrier a bit, and take out all the slop in the ring/pinion. This is about perfect, because I have yet to install a gasket on the cover plate, and that will open up space a bit... I'll be able to take out a shim or two, relocate them, and will have plenty of flexibility in shimming.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Now, at this point, there are several 'housekeeping' things that I need to do, which include, but not limited to:

Drilling and bolting the ring gear to the differential
Replacing bearings and cups in differential
Replacing bearings and cups in ring and pinion
Reassembling the differential's guts

Along the way, I will have to dismantle the rest of the transaxle, which really isn't much (pinion), and I'll take the opportunity to do some other modifications to the diff case to make it better-suited to the Loader-Mutt lifestyle. It'll get a thorough cleaning inside and out after, and depending on how the paint inside holds up (it's a special paint that was used on insides of machines and gearboxes btw... frequently referred to as Glyptol, and besides corrosion protection, it seals in porosities and prevents casting sand residue from working loose into lubricant and sensitive stuff) it might get another coat inside, and paint on the outside.

Then reassemble, set up the gears, etc.,

Oh, and axle tubes. Who could forget axle tubes? (me).
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Crickets...

all I hear are ... crickets...

and off in the distance, the sad wail of a lonely chainsaw...

Thanks for listening to my show... it's open phones, we're going to the next caller and...

well... all the lines are open...

I'd go to commercial break, but there's no commercials on this channel... so hey...

I'll ask YOU ALL a question:

On the front of the hydro transaxle is a large steel plug covering the pinion nut.

Is there any sort of trick to removing it NICELY? Like... without destroying it?
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

Klapatta
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Location: Rockingham VT.

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by Klapatta »

Ok, well I was expecting to see a bell shaped structure that would have bolted to the surface where the bearing cap previously nested in place once that cast surface had been machined flat of course. My vision of that was something held in place with six bolts rather than the previous three given it's overall increased diameter. I'm not seeing how you intend to maintain the original frame width dimension with the adaptation plate adding to the overall stack height. Maybe I'm missing something but is it not the shorter axle housing the one that faces the ID tag side? The deeper axle housing could be faced down the corresponding amount however that one goes on the other side. IDK :lol:

Klapatta
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by Klapatta »

The case outer housing was at first designed to support the axle tube. In this configuration it will now serve a dual purpose. Additional forces from your carrier will now be applied to that surface.
Transfer screws of the screw in type are commercially available reasonably priced in several configurations.
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I prefer the Heimann type myself as they are of a self contained storage design. They have the advantage of being mounted just slightly above flush as well. I have them all from 8-32 from 1/2-13. Handy little buggers that they are. But very easy to drop and loose.
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The images show are picks off the internet and not mine.

DaveKamp
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Hi Ken!

Okay, splitting up the questions... kinda combining them t'ween the two posts:

Yes, the previous bearing cap mounting surface is now cut away to provide clearance form the diff housing... and you're correct, the diff side-bearing load is now moved outward to the axle tube mounting surface. When I examined this initially, I was concerned about strength exactly as you noted. It may result in something breaking, but gut feeling (after looking over this casting's shape and thickness) is that the diff bearing's loading will probably not pose a significant impact on stress, and because of the filler plate and ID of the hole I bored, it's likely to be as, or stronger. I assure you that it will be subjected to a trial by fire, and if it fails, the drama will be epic! :lol:

The bearing cup being held on with three bolts is apparently plenty sufficient for stock use... I don't think adding three more would make a big difference. Going to a steel cup might, and in right form, I should note that I did open up the ID of the cups to accept the larger bearings, so theoretically I've sacrificed some strength there, but I'm not the first, and I haven't heard of anyone experiencing failure of those cups, modified or not. Relocating the cup toward the outside flange, provided the flange is a viably-rigid mounting surface under both gear and axle load... shouldn't cause a problem, and from a leverage perspective, should REDUCE the cup load... because it's farther from the center of the pinion axis. But what WON'T be happening here, is that the axle shaft will NOT be supporting any load other than torque... I'll be using full-floating hubs, so all wheel loads will go straight to the tubes... the differential carrier should be totally decoupled from any other unexpected moments.

Overall stack height (width) is certainly going to be a factor. That side plate is a bit thicker than MOST of the casting of the original axle tube... and yes, it's the opposite side that has the deeper well, as the bearing cup was recessed on the (left) side I cut, but flush on the right side. I haven't started building the axle tube system YET, but I'm generally thinkin' that when I'm challenged by mounting surfaces, there's a high likelyhood that my end result will involve modifying the frame to suit the tubes. I haven't solved it yet, but that'll be forthcoming.

Commercially made transfer screws, and precision transfer punches, are about the handiest things to have around when fitting stuff up. In my case, it always seems that I have every size but the size I need, so I wind up making them. In this case, I know I made some several years ago when I adapted a Chevy stovebolt six to an Eaton hydrostat out of a Massey 715 combine, but I'll be danged if I can figure out where they wound up... I probably dropped (and lost) them in the swarf. Fortunately, my cordless drill and pedestal grinder work at 10pm on a Sunday night... ;) Always seems that when I don't have what I need, it leaves me at empasse, and when I'm making good progress in my shop, I'm a possessed animal... I hate to be halted. :evil:
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Oh, and as an aside note...

It is inevitable that I will eventually exercise a process or technique requiring tools that MOST GUYS don't own, or have immediate access to... or have the skillset to operate effectively and safely. MANY MANY decades ago, when I was in my teens, I needed a lathe to turn down a shaft, and my dad's workshop had only a drill-press. I figured out a way to turn that shaft down with the drill press... and I figured out a way to drill down the more-or-less exact center of a round piece... in that same drill press. It was a serious waste of a teenager's time, but I learned very well, just how important the understanding of workholding, toolholding, and geometry was.

DO NOT LET AL LACK OF TOOL OR SKILL stand in YOUR way of doing projects like this. Where there is a will, there is a way.

There were times when I did not... and many of the things I do here (making the centering punches, for example) could be done many other ways... like spending money to BUY, or using the lathe and toolpost grinder to MAKE a much nicer piece... or use a totally different technique, based on what you have available.

In the case of these punches, and many of the other tools and techniques I illustrated, I chose the methods that presented me with what I felt was the shortest, and most effective reasonable solution to the punch-bowl mix of challenges I faced. There are ALWAYS other ways, and while it may not appear to be so, I change my mind frequently. Case-in-point:

I had access to laser for cutting plates. Some dimensions on my drawings transposed improperly at the far end, and I didn't catch the error 'till after the really bright light was on, and after the fact, I wound up with stuff that was just-a-quarter-shy of what I needed.

Notice that I made use of one of the pieces... and then used a more primitive method- torch, grinder, and lathe... to cut the sideplate after. Took more time, but much less money.

I make choices like this all the time, and sometimes they're good, sometimes not so much... in the end, they're all education- tution is never cheap, our mistakes are the best lessons. As long as there's no injury, it's really not a 'loss'.

If you're doing a project that requires some machine, some tool, or some skill that YOU don't have, cultivate your relationships with others... reach out, and see who around you HAS what you need, and then show them what you're trying to do. If you're pressed for time, you'll pay them, but eventually you'll come upon the right person who will, rather than offer-to-do-it, free or for-pay, perhaps they'll introduce you to that machine or technique. Perhaps you'll wind up with an opportunity to obtain a similar machine within your budget, perhaps you'll get the chance to learn over-the-shoulder of someone who's willing to pass on wisdom to the next generation.

That's how I got to this point, and I try to do my best to pass on what I know, to those who have the internal motivations of 'make cool things happen'.

And to clarify WHY I'm doing this (not the transaxle, but the whole posting), is so that everyone that thinks it's some kind of super-special talent, sees what it really is... it's not a 'man behind the curtain'... no magic here. I'm not 'better' than anyone else... frankly, there's a zillion guys who do professional work that puts mine to shame. I'm not interested in externally profiting from my ventures... if guys wanna replicate my work, have-at-it, and by the way, there's much more efficient methods to do this if they'd like to do the machine-work and 'mass produce' a kit. I'm doin' this as a one-off operation, for my own needs... and somewhere out there is a guy who's had the same darned axle break over-and-over, and he's tired of it, wants to see his options, and this MIGHT be a good one.

Just don't get hurt doin' it... please... and thank you~!! :beer:
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

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dag1450
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by dag1450 »

Thanks Dave! I can't say I've followed along on every post...and most if not all of this machine work is over my head, but it has been fun watching and listening to you go through the process.
I'm so "stock" with my tractors...and Life it's disgusting. You sound so "modified" its painful.... :lol: Great job working through this.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

davis2
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by davis2 »

I see it's mostly the Dave's posting... I've been watching the posts, but been really busy lately. I really am not familiar with the equipment or terminology, but am learning with each post. Please keep posting your progress, I'm waiting to see the final product. Your efforts are appreciated!

Cubrick
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First and Last Name: Eric Lewis
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by Cubrick »

Dave, keep up the good work! That's one heck of a project ! But i know you will figure it out. One of these days, i'm going to have to pull the bull gear from my 1945 16 inch south bend lathe and repair the missing teeth so i can machine larger diameters again. i have no idea when those teeth broke off??????????? Eventually i want LINE BORE single cylinder K-motors on it. Where i worked in Michigan i line bored many larger machine parts and castings to make machines either better or to do what i needed them to do. well, some day i'll get to it!
Eric

DaveKamp
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Dave, and Dave- if I'm using equipment or terminology that is unfamiliar, PLEASE ASK! Now is a perfect chance, and I'm more than happy to explain it. Guys that use these things every day already know, but there's absolutely no reason why you should be wondering... even if it's stuff you think you'd never own, or have access to, if you understand what these things are, what they do, and how we're doing it, then you'll know when YOU're working on something, what needs to be done for something to turn out right.

Eric- dental work on gear teeth is quite a fascinating thing... I've seen guys build 'em up with brass, then file them down, and go on living like it never happened...
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

Klapatta
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by Klapatta »

Replacing broken teeth on any gear can be a hit or miss affair IMHO. Back in February out 48" Republic lathe lost a tooth on it's main input drive shaft. Without that gear the machine is missing 4 speeds. Our service department removed the shaft. From there it was sent over to our aircraft certified welder who built that tooth back up through tungsten inert gas welding. From there it went to me for tooth reforming. Well, it worked good for 4 1/2 months and then the other day while I was running it BANG. This time around it took out two teeth one of which was the repaired one.
Talk about throwing rocks in the gears, well I'm not around machine shop stuff at the moment.
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But anyway our plan B is to make an entire new shaft from 4150 and have the gear profile machined at outside sources using a gear hobber. Later. I'll deal with that when I get back. :lol:

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Ken-

that picture ROCKS!

That's one darned-big gear tooth, Bedrock style! (must be for a Muncie 'Rock Crusher') :lol: :lol: :lol:

The tough thing about rebuilding teeth, is that if the parent metal was brittle enough to shed one tooth, trying to adhere something to replace it is inherently limited.

or as Thomas Dolby says "Tinted contacts don't change the fact... that black is black."

And it's basically that reason (and personal experience) when someone asks me about an early Atlas lathe, that I point out that the leadscrew reverse gearbox is impressively weak... and for some strange reason, they don't believe me 'till they shift it on-the-fly for the third... and last... time... and then go looking around for a replacement gearbox (which doesn't exist)...
I'm fortunate that all my lathes have all their teeth... it's kinda rare to find a Lodge and Shipley, or a Sidney, or a Rivett with a broken gear somewhere.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

Okay, so there was something standing in my way of progress... the next step required a Dana 60 full-floater rearend... and I had one, but it was somewhat 'buried' in the pole barn... behind a 22' boat. Today was a good day to extract the boat, and likewise, the axle. It's from a '67 Ford F250. I salvaged it from a junker some 25 years ago, originally figured I'd narrow it and put it under one of my Jeeps, along with a Dana 44 open-knuckle that I converted to 8-bolt fronts. Seein's how there's better alternatives to the 60 now, and neither is under a Jeep, this 60 will become donor of ends for a Cub Cadet rearend from hell.

The Dana 60 rear came in several different flavors, and I didn't really worry too much at the time which flavor THIS one is, because (as you can see) it wasn't a high priority at the time. Regardless of wether this is the extremely stout, or rather weak version of the 60, it's easily 20x stronger than the IHCC outers, bearing, and semi-floating 1" pencil-neck that I've been twisting off. I'm not the least bit concerned as to wether THIS axle's outers are up to the task... I'm absolutely certain they are.
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Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

DaveKamp
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:19 am
First and Last Name: Dave Kamp
Location: LeClaire, Ia

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by DaveKamp »

That's an 8-bolt pattern, and the hubs have a substantial pilot hole requirement. For those of you who've not seen a full floater, that center portion, with the smaller bolt pattern, is the hub, and the smaller pattern in the middle is the axleshaft. You may recall from earlier posts, that the difference between a semi-floating axle, and a full-floating axle, is that the axleshaft on a semi-floater not only provides twist for motion, it also supports the wheel. A bearing just inside the axle tube holds the axle, and the flange on the axle holds the wheel.

in a full-floater, the wheel sits on a hub, that has bearings on the inside and outside, that in turn are on the axle tube's exterior. The axle shaft does nothing more than spin the wheel.

The advantage to a full-floating system, is that any side load from pulling, lifting, or turning on that wheel, is directed at the hub bearings, to the axle tube. The axle shaft simply makes the wheel turn.

On my loader, the axle twisted off just outside of the differential gears... right next to the diff carrier bearings. One would conclude that it was simply lots of torque that caused the axle to break there, but the fact is, that the axle was being deflected too... by heavy load on the axle shaft at the flange... big, grippy tire with lots of ballast on the wheel, and more ballast on the back of the machine... the original axle shaft was flexing, and the weakest point, that fatigued most, was right by the diff side gears.

That kind of thing will NOT happen with a full-floater.

First step- strip the axle down to the parts I need...
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

Klapatta
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:25 pm
First and Last Name: Kenneth LaPatta
Location: Rockingham VT.

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by Klapatta »

I thought he said "she blinded me with science
th.gif
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and failed me with geometry"
I don't always time warp back on sunny Sunday mornings but when I do the neighbors get to listen :lol:

davis2
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:30 pm
First and Last Name: Dave Davis
Location: Quantico,MD (Formerly from Lee Center,NY)

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by davis2 »

DaveKamp wrote:Dave, and Dave- if I'm using equipment or terminology that is unfamiliar, PLEASE ASK! Now is a perfect chance, and I'm more than happy to explain it. Guys that use these things every day already know, but there's absolutely no reason why you should be wondering... even if it's stuff you think you'd never own, or have access to, if you understand what these things are, what they do, and how we're doing it, then you'll know when YOU're working on something, what needs to be done for something to turn out right.

Eric- dental work on gear teeth is quite a fascinating thing... I've seen guys build 'em up with brass, then file them down, and go on living like it never happened...
I promise to ask if I need to. I usually figure things out as I go, or at least figure out enough to have an understanding.

davis2
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:30 pm
First and Last Name: Dave Davis
Location: Quantico,MD (Formerly from Lee Center,NY)

Re: Loader Mutt Continues...

Post by davis2 »

Klapatta wrote:I thought he said "she blinded me with science
th.gif
and failed me with geometry"
I don't always time warp back on sunny Sunday mornings but when I do the neighbors get to listen :lol:
I was a teenager when Thomas Dolby was blinded with science! Like you, I share my musical warp backs with the neighbors and pedestrians!!!

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