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Any questions so far? Reminder- this will NOT be an open-book test...

Okay, so got three tasks done tonight- two more gussets cut and tacked in place... got the assembly flipped over for some work underneath... and knocked the seals and bearings out of one spindle to get parts ordered.

Changed tactics, as hard spots in the 1/2" were killing mills. Still chain-drilling, but using the carbide face-mill to chew off the uglyness. And now those two are in place... I had to slide the axle shafts out, remove the outers, unbolt the support arm, lift the case (with diff and side plate in), then roll it over on the floor, pick it back up, and set it atop the stand, then clamp it down and reassemble, else it'd been too heavy for me to handle safely by myself.

So now that it's upside-down, what are my options?

So, while I'm contemplating that (and working for a living, right?) I gotta get some bearings and seals ordered for these spindles.

Let's get greasy and see what the numbers are:
The outer spindle bearing is a Bower 18780


The outer race is a Bower 18720 .


The INNER spindle race is a 18720


The INNER spindle bearing is a Timken 18790



The seal is a VG 62872 So I need:
Four 18720 bearing races
Two 18790 bearings
Two 18780 bearings
Two VG62872 lip seals

So i had forgotten what this thread was all about cause it started so many years ago....

I have decided to start from page 1.... its been a long journey and now Im at page umm ugh 4!!

Still working on it, Hope i can retain enough for the Test@!

dave

Hmmm... I'm certainly a fan of "overbuilt", but the gussets are quite thick for the application. Since we like rear ballast, that's not bad, but without beveling you'll never get weld that matches the gusset strength. I also don't remember how thick the axle tubes are, but I'd also be concerned about pulling them with excessive heat during final welding, or just the difficulty of heavy weld on thinner tube.

None of the above is criticism, just thinking out loud. My attitude would be that for the application, I don't need weld that necessarily matches the gusset strength. I'm guessing weld size will be more dictated by the axle tubes material thickness. Carefully alternating where welding will help evenly distribute heat.
Looking good!

You are correct about the lack of bevel in my gussets, and in your note on gusset strength. I didn't pick a half-inch gusset because I felt I needed half-inch strenght... and actually, if it were to ever SEE that half-inch gusset's load severity, I wholly expect that the transaxle casing would become an iron eggshell

There's two reasons for the gusset form-factor... First, is that these gussets are cut in large quantities on a laser table, by the guys who do all my company laser work. They are actually DROPS from other customers' parts... Which means, the cost is low... like... absolute zero... $-460F. I grabbed a handful when I was over visiting one day, put 'em in my misc bucket, and when it came time for this project, I said Hey... I got THESE... Added bonus- being squarely cut, a little cleaning up, drop 'em into a corner, and they magically put themselves at a right-angle to whatever surface they're assigned!

Next... the lack of V... yes, and heat distortion, yes too. My plan, is to give them nice fillets, a little-at-a-time. Since the gussets are thick, the welds on ONE side of the gusset wing, will be a half inch away from the welds on the OTHER side... and the result, is that the HAZ on one side, will not be on top of the HAZ on the other. Another way to describe it... let's say I carve a bevel onto these, and make it so that I've got 100% penetration. I'm gonna need lots of filler, and lots of heat, to fill in that bevel... and my HAZ will be a full inch thick on the tube. Not only is that hard on the tube, it'll cause the tube to distort... which I certainly do NOT want. I want these gussets in place, and with the LEAST amount of distortion possible. Clearly, they'll have incredible compression strength, simply because they're fat, and they're up against thick stuff. The tension load isn't that serious of a matter, because there's two others, 120 degrees each side of the circle, that'll be bearing any tension load, in a compression mode.

All in reality, the Dana 60 axle tubes are thick enough that they're never likely to bend, especially being this short. The gussets right now, are assuring that when I put a bead around the tube's diameter, into the side plates, that everything will stay put... and once it's done, I'll chuck the spindle tube into the lathe, and put a dial indicator on the tube ID to see how far off it is. There's quite a bit of compliance in the full-floater's design, albeit in stock (long) length, there's a whole lot more, I'm pretty certain my alignment will be okay for operation.

But if I were expecting more, I certainly WOULD put a deeper chamfer, and go for deeper penetration. I would also have fabbed these assemblies in reverse order... cut the tubes, mount the plates to the tubes, then do the lathe-work to maintain concentricity, and I CONSIDERED that, but there was one little missing part: Length. I realized that I would NOT know the actual necessary length, until after I'd done most of the machining... so I HAD to do it this way.

IF I were ever to say... make a 'kit' for this kind of thing (and I won't, so don't get any ideas), I'd use all that I know now, and dimension it all out, and have my laser guys cut all the parts, and use the CNC mill to chew all the chips, into pieces I could assemble down tight in a jig, then I'd weld it all, then do all the concentric operations in the lathe, then put it in a positioning jig and have the CNC mill drill out the holes., so that a guy would just hafta take a special boring bar from the kit, chuck it in his 1/2" drill, slip the boring bar into the bearing cup bores, cut the big hole, then the 5" clearance hole, and plop the parts in.

But I ain't doing kitting like that... or ANY kitting, at least, not till the big plasma table is operational, which is gonna be a while.

And I guess I should add a 'short' engineering note...

One of my most respected mentors pointed out to me long ago, was a civil structural engineer for the USACE, and he pointed out two very basic points:

1) A good structural design, is one where the elements carry load stresses, and the only thing the fasteners do, is hold those elements in proper position, and nothing more.

2) The fastening and joinery must either be overwhelmingly strong (so it cannot deflect under circumstances many orders more severe than possible), or it must be compliant (to allow deflection under severe load. By doing so, you can either assure that the stress from any load and overload, will be either translated to another point of support, or absorbed between it's origin, and the point of support.

And the wisdom of definition he bestowed upon me:
- Mechanical Engineers design things which are supposed to move, but frequently don't.
- Civil Engineers design things which are NOT supposed move, but frequently DO.


And if I already noted, I'll reiterate: Everything I'm doing here, is for nothing, if I fail to recognize points 1) and 2) above... I MUST play Devil's Advocate and ask myself, regardless of what loads exist, WHERE are they going? The answer is: Through six bolts into a piece of cast iron.

This means, that my housings are brutal, ghastly structural beasts, and they're connected to that (term above) "Eggshell". IF I just bolt these on, I've signed my own sentence of failure. A good shock load very well might rip that case into iron chips, so yeah, I'm already well-thought-out on that, so stand by...

Here comes the 1/2" steel "case girdle"!

The question of the cast iron case crossed my mind, egg shell being a good descriptor. But seeing your projects over the years I thought you considered that.

Tom hit it... i'll be fabricating a girdle that not only transfers axle flange stress AROUND the case, and supports internal stress.

My hope... is that i can incorporate a hydraulic rear lift cylinder, and some additional hyd. fluid capacity

Nice Dave! Way beyond my pay grade!

Clank wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:43 pm

Nice Dave! Way beyond my pay grade!

"A Man's Got To Know his Limitations"...

One'a these days, I'm gonna find mine.

In the meantime, the pile of chips on the floor keeps on rising...

DaveKamp wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:24 am

Any questions so far? Reminder- this will NOT be an open-book test...

So how are the PRP injections working?

Well, Dave, I got ONE that went right into the area where he sutured the quad tendon back onto the patella, and the burning that I WAS getting in there, dropped off considerably. It hasn't had a dramatic effect on the pain occurring INSIDE the knee contact joint, nor has it had a remarkable effect on the random occasions where the joint feels like it's out-of-position and unable to provide support, so I'm nowhere near being able to run, or even jog up any stairs. It still swells up substantially when I walk around a while, and it feels stiff, but it doesn't make any substantial change in discomfort.

I'll call it effective-so-far. The next major operational milestone test will be bicycling, which hasn't been practical for environmentally-obvious reasons common to my lattitude and longitude... but springtime is on the way in, so won't be long before the 22-spd plastic sportscar comes out of the basement storage rack.

Hopefully, I'll have this transaxle installed and operational long before then, so it's not in my way!

Give it time to heal... I was insane waiting on my knee surgery, I know how that is! But rest may be what you need, or at least find a way to sit while working. I'm dealing with back trouble, so Pain and discomfort is a constant companion.

I snuck away for 6 days of Self-Imposed Physical Therapy... walking 4 miles of sandy beach in Naples, Fl!

Back in the office this week, I'll call in an order for some bearings, races, and seals for the Dana 60 hubs...

And once I get all the home-stuff caught up, I'll pattern out the girdles.

Sounds like a good choice! The wife and I are due for a stroll over at Assateague National Park, just needs to warm up!

Wellll... I managed to get a Round Tuit last week- ordered bearings, races, and seals for the Dana60 spindles.

Two seals, two outer races, two inner races, and four tapered roller bearings... eight pieces total.


Last set I ordered were actually for a slightly larger axle in my step-van, three years ago, they set me back about $130.

This set was NOT what I was expecting:

Variable weather, and many other things have kinda suspended progress, but i skipped lunch, instead using the time to apply finish welds and use a bread blaster to clean up for some primer. Pix to follow!

And with a spritz of yellow-ish paint... Yeah, it's not a perfect yellow, but it's a whole lot more yellow than it WAS...

And with 'em shoved onto the case for a look... Yeah, it's not a 'great' yellow, but once I fit her up, it'll be all dirty anyway.

The housing needs a visit from the needle scaler, some primer and paint now...

It's going to be a beast!

This is an amazing build! Keep up the excellent work and thank you for the easy to follow build story! I can't wait to see the mutt finished with this installed!

Okay, so it ain't MUCH progress, on account of lots of stuff I've been doing outdoors (getting caught up on old stuff, digging into new stuff), but I DID manage to get the hubs degreased, media blasted, masked and sprayed with the rattle-can:

This really shows just how beastly large these Dana 60 spindles are... they're about the same size as the diff carrier... WITH the ring gear installed: Gotta love overkill... if I ever find a way to break any part of this, it WON'T be the hubs or spindles... that don't mean much, but it DOES mean it'll still roll if I hafta drag it out of a hole.
I had a scrap of plastic pipe, so I cut pieces long enough to cover the wheel studs. For the axle flange studs, I just ran a piece of packaging tape around to close off the end. I had a plastic cup that fit the bottom nice on one, and a peanut-butter jar for the other... they'll reduce the paint-cleanoff effort when it comes time to install bearings and seals: Getting close to assembling this into a rolling unit...

Lookin' good!

So there's a half-dozen other projects going on, and during the summer, the workshop's environment becomes stifling, but it's cooling off a little now... I had an hour and a half of tolerable conditions last week, and another machining project that would have plenty of stand-and-wait time, so I dug up a history video on the electric pictureframe and started pressing in bearing races and seals. Both the spindles are now installed on the tubes, but the tubes don't have gaskets YET. Next step will be to cut the housing/tube gaskets, get some Dana 60 spindle/axle gaskets, and turn some axle flanges for these shortened axleshafts.

As a refresher, the diff is a Auburn limited slip from an early '80's Ford Mustang 5.0... it was a semi-floating C-clip design with 35ish splines. The outer axle tubes are from a Dana 60 Full-Floater previously '67ish Ford 1-ton. The Dana axleshafts were the 19-spline flavor, and do NOT fit the Auburn Mustang center... but the Mustang axles, being semi-floating, had to support the overhung weight and ground torque of the car, the Full Floater design does not, so the Mustang axles are substantially thicker than the 60 full floater's. Just so happens, though, that the Mustang axles' OD will slip down the center of the Dana 60 without any magic involved, so I'm using the Mustang axles mated to their Auburn center-section, but in the full-floater housing.

To do that, I cut the Mustang's flanges off... actually, about half the axle shaft off... and I cut off the C-clip ends, too- don't need, and don't want them in the way. Next step, is to make two discs with holes to accept those axle shafts, and slip over the bolts on the face of the spindles.

Okay, so time for bearings and seals... No complexity here, push in the races, drop in the bearings, and slip on the seals. On a Dana 60 Full Floater, the bearings are lubricated by presence of gear oil which comes down the tube around the axleshafts, then into the hub. In trucks, guys will often grease them, just so they know they're lubricated, but in this case, we've got hydrostatic fluid that'd be contaminated by grease, so I just gave 'em a little bit of HyTran to keep them wet for now. Once all there, I slid 'em onto the housing outers, installed the adjusting ring, keeper, and lockring, set 'em to appropriate preload (in this case, darned little) and smashed the lockring over to secure. And then I slid one of the Mustang axleshafts into the spindle to check stickout... Yeah, I like that!!!