1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

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lonzo147cadet
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:38 pm
First and Last Name: Paul Anderson
Location: Rossford, OH

1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

Fellow Cubbers:

I have been enjoying my Cub Cadet 147 since purchasing it nearly a year ago, using it only to mow less than a half acre of grass. I have done any required maintenance myself, which recently includes changing the HyTran oil, the transmission oil filter, and the cover plate gasket. The oil I drained from the tranny looked fine, and there was NO metal in the bottom of the case. 

Anyway, since changing the tranny oil, my transmission now leaks after each use. I have had to add oil to the tranny for fear of it going dry. And, I have read whatever I could find here on this forum about leaking trannies, but I'm not certain any of it was applicable to my own situation.

The oil is neither leaking from the filter, nor from around the back cover. But the bottom of the transmission shows plenty of oil on it, which makes pinpointing the source difficult. Might anyone know the source of the leak? It's a mystery to me why this would happen when ti was not leaking before. I bought the oil, gasket, and filter from a Case/IH dealer, and they told me the oil is compatible with old Cadets. It is, indeed, the hytran oil. 

BTW, I have no photos, but I can post photos of my tractor if you're interested in seeing its condition. It was pretty nicely resto'd in 2020, and only had one season of use (2021) and Spring of 2022. I bought it in June of last year. 

Thanks,  

Paul in Rossford, OH

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dag1450
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First and Last Name: Dave Gibson
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by dag1450 »

Well that stinks! You try to do a good thing and you go backwards. Story of big Mikes life. If he chimes in on this thread...whater he says or recommends , do the opposite, then you will be moving forward!   :oops:  The only way to find out is to clean it off real good run it for a little bit then start looking around with a good flashlight. You may not even have to drive it around, Maybe just start it up. I would think the front input shaft would look like its the filter as its right over the filter. There are one or two check valves on top twards the front, they have given people trouble leaking? There is the main case seal that seals the two halves, that goes the whole way around? Then a side seal on the speed selector shaft, drivers side near the center top? Good luck and yes pictures are always welcome! Let us know what you find.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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BigMike
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by BigMike »

dag1450 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:37 am

Well that stinks! You try to do a good thing and you go backwards. Story of big Mikes life. If he chimes in on this thread...whater he says or recommends , do the opposite, then you will be moving forward!   :oops:  

Wha, wait!!!!! Hang on here Pal! Where do you come off questioning my mechanical talents.........oh yea, from my 125 dying in the yard and I couldn't figure out why :lol: :lol: ​​​​​​​ :lol: ​​​​​​​ :lol: ​​​​​​​ :lol:
Feel the love!!!
I would spray it off with brake cleaner or some such and then watch around the return tube. Those have been know to cause Dags......I mean problems! :lol: ​​​​​​​
 

JMotuzick
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by JMotuzick »

I’ve seen bad cork gaskets and broke pick up tubes. Pick up tubes can be cut out and the 2 part ones can be installed in chassis, or the big loopy one would need to be done on the bench.

lonzo147cadet
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Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:38 pm
First and Last Name: Paul Anderson
Location: Rossford, OH

Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

Thanks, gentlemen (these days, I'm sometimes unsure I can even use the word "gentlemen", because well, things have gotten weird--but I will take the risk of being "cancelled" or "called out" by the thought police who lurk seemingly everywhere), for your helpful replies. 

What is confusing is that the tranny did not leak at all until I serviced it. But I will thoroughly clean underneath the case, mow the lawn, and take another looksee. I may even only run it for a few minutes first to see if there is a dribble, since the source of the leak will be more easily traced. 

I hate the thought of having to take anything apart, replace gaskets/seals, and do all this again. Crissakes, I have learned over and over that as much as I like old stuff (I've owned a 1946 airplane, a 1940 car, a 1958 wooden runabout boat--which I just sold, and this Cub tractor), these antiques make themselves out to be very needy, high maintenance machines. I love this Cub, but I am reminded why most people just buy new stuff, run it for ten years, and then junk it. The temptation is there for me to do the same!!!

I will submit a full report when I know more. 

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dag1450
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by dag1450 »

Yes the old stuff has it's "charm"! Most of us probably have these old tractors for one reason....we don't mind the occasional project. Lol. Don't climb under and get all oiled up for us. Just kick that 147 to the curb and let me know when....I will be right there. Lol. Does it have electric lift?
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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chzuck
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by chzuck »

Just a thought.  There was one time I ordered a rear cover gasket and the one I ordered online was not near as thick as the original.  I went to the dealer and that one was as thick as the old one and no leaks.  One place I did have a small leak was a bolt on the right extension, near the cover plate.  That bolt it threaded into the differential housing and needs sealer on the bolt threads.  It took two tries, but as of now there are no oil spots under my 147.
http://www.zucksrototillers.com
There is only ONE ROTOTILLER.
147 with 48" mower deck & 42" QA snow thrower
70 with 42" mower deck, 42" blade, & Brinly 10" plow

lonzo147cadet
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Location: Rossford, OH

Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

I have no plans on selling this Cub--at least, not yet! I mostly enjoy working on it, and running it! What a beast she is compared to anything that is new. In fact, I feel kinda sorry fer the fellers around me who are running new equipment! Anyway, so long as the repairs and maintenance required is manageable and intermittent, I will keep on it. There are things I am still trying to figure out on this particular machine, but I'll get there.

As for the rear tranny cover being the culprit? Well, the area around the cover and gasket are dry. It seems the leak is somewhere on the bottom. The area around the filter also seems dry.

Weird thing though. I recently topped off the fluid (added until it ran out of the hole). It sat for a close to a week before I mowed the lawn--which happened yesterday. I peered under the tractor a moment ago and there is no sign of leakage!!! Because the weather has been so dry, it may be another two weeks before I have to mow again. Maybe I will have learned something by then, or maybe the tranny has magically stopped leaking. But since I don't believe in magical thinking, I will cast a suspicious eye on this tractor until I know for sure. If it does stop leaking, I will just knock on wood and run the tractor as normal. 

Check out the latest pics of my Cub (just took them five minutes ago). Since buying it, I have replaced the seat, added new rubber seat bumpers (they're huge), and done some basic maintenance such as the tranny, of course, an engine oil change, greasing zerks, adjusting the carb when necessary (last fall, a bit of sediment got in the bowl float needle, which I had to flush), and other items. I have enjoyed working on it. Since the guy who resto'd it installed a new engine, she runs great. And the hydro runs great, too. 

I feel lucky to own one of these old workhorses. Oh, and I almost forgot to answer the question about the lift. As you can see, this machine does have the electric lift, and it functions fine. I use it sparingly to save the gears from wear and tear.



 
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chzuck
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by chzuck »

Does your electric lift have the clutch?  That is the biggest saver of gears.  Mine did not and I stripped the gear.  I acquired the clutch before I replaced the gears.
http://www.zucksrototillers.com
There is only ONE ROTOTILLER.
147 with 48" mower deck & 42" QA snow thrower
70 with 42" mower deck, 42" blade, & Brinly 10" plow

lonzo147cadet
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:38 pm
First and Last Name: Paul Anderson
Location: Rossford, OH

Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

I don't believe it has a clutch. The guy who restored it warned me to be careful when using the lift. He told me that if I held the switch for too long when raising or lower it, I might strip the gears. So, I only use it just to raise or lower the deck to the height setting bracket. Once there, I pretty much leave it there for the season. If I have to raise the deck for some reason, I just raise it a bit, and then lower to the bracket height--if that makes sense. I almost never completely raise or lower the deck. 

My hope is that I never have to do any repair work on this lift, or worse, have to replace it. I don't plan on ever using any other implements with this machine in any case. 

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chzuck
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by chzuck »

Try to find a clutch.  The manual for the 147 shows the slip clutch on page 2-80.  What you described is exactly how I stripped the gear on mine.  I got a slip clutch and now I don't have to think about it.  Mine looks like the one in the top of the snip I attached.
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http://www.zucksrototillers.com
There is only ONE ROTOTILLER.
147 with 48" mower deck & 42" QA snow thrower
70 with 42" mower deck, 42" blade, & Brinly 10" plow

lonzo147cadet
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:38 pm
First and Last Name: Paul Anderson
Location: Rossford, OH

Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

Do you know where I might find one of these clutches? Looks like a good solution and preventive measure. 

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chzuck
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by chzuck »

Ever heard of Ray Weaver?  He is about 3/4 of an hour from me and has all kinds of Cub parts.  I could give you his number if you like.
http://www.zucksrototillers.com
There is only ONE ROTOTILLER.
147 with 48" mower deck & 42" QA snow thrower
70 with 42" mower deck, 42" blade, & Brinly 10" plow

lonzo147cadet
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:38 pm
First and Last Name: Paul Anderson
Location: Rossford, OH

Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

I found him with a google search, and just called and left a message. Thanks for the tip.

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chzuck
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by chzuck »

Your welcome. 
How are you making out with your oil leak?
http://www.zucksrototillers.com
There is only ONE ROTOTILLER.
147 with 48" mower deck & 42" QA snow thrower
70 with 42" mower deck, 42" blade, & Brinly 10" plow

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Tom Scott
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by Tom Scott »

+1 on Ray Weaver.  He doesn't give parts away, but he won't do you wrong, and he'll make it right if something doesn't go how it's supposed to.  Myself and dag have met at Ray's a few times for a visit, always interesting visiting Ray!
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
<><

DaveKamp
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by DaveKamp »

Welcome to the group. Paul!

You're safe using the word 'Gentlemen' around us, but if any Ladies are offended, they'll just hafta throw a pair of slip-joint pliers at you... fortunately, they rattle when they fly, so duck, and keep the pretty paint on the hood covered with a beach-towel.

As for the REST of the things you could call us, I think the rest of the guys are like me- we don't CARE what you call us, as long as you're smiling when you do it.  :lol:

So, if this is your first (genuine) Cub Cadet, you've discovered WHY they're so desired... because they're strong, and tough, and aside from being somewhat close-quarters between the frame rails, very easy to work on.

Most will say they're unbreakable... and in the context of MOST peoples' use, they are.  There's a couple guys around that REALLY know how to break things, and if you turn into one of those guys, there's help for you around here. :?

Transaxle leaks... yep, it's a hydrostat, so there's some things you need to know:

The transaxle housing has several LIKELY leak points.  That gasket sandwiched 'tween the Sundstrand and case, the pickup tube from lower case to Sundstrand, the back cover, each axle housing, axle seals, top cover, transaxle vent, and finally, the Sundstrand 15U's side bushings.  I rate the likelyhood of a leak to each of those, in the very order I noted.   The very LAST, and least likely, would be right through the case... ie. a crack or porosity in the housing, which I've seen on OTHER things, but I've NEVER seen one on an IH Cub Cadet.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just that I've never seen it happen.

The hydrostat unit is a Sundstrand 15U.  It bolts to the front of the transaxle casting with four 3/8 bolts (9/16 heads).  There's a cork gasket 'tween the hydrostat unit and the case, and they don't get to have an infinite life.  Taking it out is a bit of a chore, particularly the first time, but after that, it gets easier, because you realize that it looks harder to do 'big', than to try to do it 'small'.

When guys do the cork gasket, most make it a very thorough process, for me, that means off with the seat and fenders, pressure wash everything, disengage a half dozen things, roll the rearend out (on it's tires), then pressure wash it again... then remove the rear cover over a catch pan... dump it all out, put the cover back on, pressure wash the whole thing again... (it's amazing how much Drass, Girt, and Stoily Crime accumulate in there). 

once clean, it's easy to see all the leak-possible places, easy to tip it up on end, pull the hydrostat, rinse out the bottom of the transaxle, change the filter, replace the cork gasket, fix the pickup tube, etc.,

As for it 'stopping' leaking?  Well, I'm certain that the fresh chemistry of the fluid change had some impact on the seals, possibly a temporary impact.  It could also be that it was filled a little high somehow, and thermal expansion under use generated a little pressure, and the vent might be painted over enough for it to push a little through somewhere...  I wouldn't be suprised if it didn't leak again... and I wouldn't be surprised if it did.  Run it, keep an eye on the levels, and don't let it go down...  and when you have a point in season when it can be pulled apart for a cork gasket, do the full job.  If there's a problem in that pickup tube, you'll certainly find, and easily repair it then.
Yes, I'm a Mad Scientist... but I'm usually happy, even when things ain't goin right.

lonzo147cadet
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Re: 1970 model 147 now leaks Hy-Tran oil since changing it.

Post by lonzo147cadet »

Holy smokes, that was quite an explanation. I suppose I will simply continue to run the tractor for now and add HY-TRAN as needed to replace the stuff that leaks out. 

On Sunday, I used kerosene soaked rags to wipe down everything underneath. I then mowed and will look at the underside to see what I can see later today. If I am still unable to determine the source, I may just leave things as they are until the fall, and then take everything apart. Oh, how I hate the thought of doing all that work you mentioned. It sounds like a project. I am good with small repairs and basic maintenance--not projects. I might hire someone to do the work if this leak continues. 

Thanks much for the advice. 

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