2086 diesel conversion?

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JoeK
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2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

Hi everyone, just had a random thought go through my head a few nights ago and was wondering how hard/easy would it be to convert my 20 hp Kawasaki powered 2086 to a kubota diesel? in my mind the hard part would be finding a diesel engine, everything else should just swap in, am i right?? :?:. how high in HP dose a guy dare go with these mtd cubs, what will break first? i hope to someday go to a plowday with my cub once i get everything lined up and bought to do so. well thats all for now just had to get that off my mind and see what you guys thought.




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dag1450
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by dag1450 »

I think this thought goes though every owners head now and then.Lol Is the Kawasaki engine blown? You r right....finding a good doner engine will b tough, and before u shell out big money for this u would want to hear it run...how many hours....how was it used? All big if's that will b hard to know the truth!! Then the small parts that u will need could be the hard part and costly. Give us some more info on why u want to do this. Believe me.....i love the smell of diesel in the morning, just not sure its worth it until i hear more info..... Like the engine is blown and u have access to a replacement that u know the history. :lol: Dave
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

JoeK
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

my engine has around 750 hours and its operating just fine, im a diesel mechanic and i just love diesels, the equipment dealer i work for sells grasshopper lawnmowers and there big ones are diesel powered and yes if i had one a turbo would be the first thing i put on it :D . i should ask our parts guy what a new engine would cost through our company, im spoiled once in a while we get things cheaper because we are a dealer but who knows.... i do hope to someday build a articulated 4x4 cub, but that wont be for a long time.

so there really is no good reason to do a convert its just it would be fun to do i guess :lol: other then turning dirt with a plow, something in my head just says a diesel would be more fun :D

im sure i could find a good used engine around my area, there are plenty of truck shops with reefer units and plenty of salvage yards, who knows what a guy can find..
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dag1450
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by dag1450 »

Well alright y then. A diesel mechanic.....sweet! I "kinda" have gas engines figured out, but the diesel still is a little (lot) scary! I have done injectors, a pump, and glow plugs on some different ones i have owned over the years. My latest is a Kubota 4 cylinder w 3k hours......what do u think about the valves, do they need adjusting at 3000 hours or not a big deal? It starts and runs good. Smokes a little black at start up but only for a second or two?
I have seen some of these reefer engines on auction sites with tons of hours on them.....but now that i know U know what U r doing.......could b a good option.lol As for making one of them work in a cub....w/o a diesel doner tractor.....again lots of parts and pieces will need to b had but....sounds like u r up for it. At 750 hours that Kawi engine has some value....this could help your wallet :lol:

(my thoughts to my self after writing this) :idea: .....My 2072 has 1500+ hours and i use it hard.......if i could get him to do this swap and post pics on line......that would help me later when i need to do a replacement.....SWEET!

Joe.....GO FOR IT!!
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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Tom Scott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by Tom Scott »

My take... Keep the 2086 as is and enjoy it, then find a factory diesel Cub.

Even a factory diesel Cub that needs lots of work will be easier than a conversion. If you find one in fabulous shape, it will be expensive, but probably still cheaper than a conversion.

You only show the one tractor in your profile, so multiple tractors are mandatory anyway as a hobby! It is really nice to have a backup (or two, or more...) tractor so you can not be rushed on repairs or upgrades. It also gives more access to your attachments; I am able to have a dedicated loader and front blade tractor by having three.

So yes, a conversion is always possible, but this is the perfect excuse to go hunting for a 1572, 1772 or 1782! Then you still likely get the satisfaction of bringing it back to shape as many need a bit of TLC. And the hunt is fun! Just another opinion, no right or wrong answer...
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1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
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JoeK
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

dag1450 in regards to your diesel engine have a look in your tractors owners manual, it should be in there for service intervals for setting valves. The big tractors say once a year "like that ever happens :roll: " i think most get set every 4 or 5 years and at the latest is at the 5000 to 7000 hr mark for rod and main bearings.
if you've had its long enough and never touched it engine wise i wouldn't hurt to adjust them. just be sure you know how they want the engine to adjust, some have A,B,C on the flywheel and others are degrees before TDC so on and so forth. i have not worked on these little engines so i do not know the proper way to set them. But just like everything else these days, im sure its on the internet :D
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dag1450
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by dag1450 »

Thanks Joe....i guess i should buy a manual for this beast. :oops: Its a L 3710.
I dont mean to poop on your sidewalk....but i do agree w Tom about buying a diesel. Im sure u do excellent fab work, but as soon as u cobble cut and weld another engine in....i dont think your value will b there if u ever sell it. They r out there, u will just need to b patient....then patient....and more patient. For mine, I was going to look at a mower deck, the guys sends me some more pics....i see this 1572 in the corner. So i hook up the trailer....load up with cash....and come home w the tractor and no mower deck :mrgreen: The deal was done in about 5 minuets....i hope he wanted to sell it :lol: Dave
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dag1450
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by dag1450 »

How far is north Dakota from Pa :lol: ..... philly Craigs list, 1782 that need help. He is dreaming at that price. lol
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VScott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by VScott »

Joe,

Just me thinking out loud, but here are a few of my thoughts in no certain order.

A 2086 is such a good, powerful, and most of all reliable tractor as it is I would personally never attempt this conversion. You would be looking at wiring harness differences, pto clutch fitment issues, there are a lot of different variations of the d600 / d640 Kubota engines. Also the v903 Kubotas have a lot of differences and similarities as well. By the time you round up all of the parts, you would be better off just finding a cyclops diesel, and at that point, why do all of the work?

If that Kaw has had the cam gear mod performed, I wouldn't stress on it one bit as far as durability or longevity. They are sweet engines.

I can't say anything good or bad about the diesel powered cyclops models, but I can tell you that on my gas Kubota powered 2186, you had better have the throttle up at least 3/4 of the way, or the 60" Haban will kill the engine. The 2086, also 60" Haban, will take the load at anything over 1/4 throttle. Makes no sense to me, as an inline engine usually makes more torque than a v- configuration engine...The highest hp used in the cyclops, or 82 series for that matter was the 22 hp (2284) Command engine. My concern would be torque input rather than horsepower. I have never seen any kind of charts on the torque curves on the gas engines vs the diesels, but I would think that anything that was intended for a lawn and garden application would be safe.

I worked on an Exmark this week for a friend that has a 31hp Vanguard, and yes, the wheels in my head are turning...would the driveline and trans in a Cub Cadet take this kind of torque???

JoeK
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

that would be a long LONG drive and with diesel going back up im just going to have to pass on that. i did have my 2086 engine apart 3 years ago when a fellow coworker had it, and had i known about the cam gear i would of looked at it. im sure its not updated, so that will have to be addressed in the future. i had no plans on going ahead with a convert i was just kicking around the idea. i love my 2086 and i am looking for a cyclops diesel 1782 i think? i got to memorize my numbers :oops:
i have seen one just today but its a red one guy wants 2k for it. i do like that style but for that i would think i would be in better shape then it is.
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VScott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by VScott »

If is a factory equipped diesel, that could only be a 782d which is not a Super...no power steering or turning brakes. I need to memorize some numbers better myself, I have been in the hobby for a long time, and I still get confused on cyclops model numbers.

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Tom Scott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by Tom Scott »

VScott wrote: I can't say anything good or bad about the diesel powered cyclops models, but I can tell you that on my gas Kubota powered 2186, you had better have the throttle up at least 3/4 of the way, or the 60" Haban will kill the engine. The 2086, also 60" Haban, will take the load at anything over 1/4 throttle.
Vinny - First of all, more model number confusion... for the gas Kubota Cyclops, you mean 2182. You go through so many tractors they are just a blur coming by! :lol:

My first 2182 is my loader tractor which I used with the 450 blower for winter duty and I have also used that one with the 3-pt tiller, both of which are high hp jobs. I can verify that gas Kubota engine is a brute! Previously I had run the 450 blower with the 1872 and the 21 hp Kubota was very noticeably stronger.

When I got my second 2182 (Cinderella story, "2182-2"), I first got to use it in the spring last year with the 54 GT deck. I noticed the same thing, while trying to not engage the deck at high rpm, that 54 GT would stall the engine. I resigned myself to starting the deck at a higher rpm and was concerned that maybe this second 2182 was down on power compared to 2182-1. Mowed all summer no problems, deck does engage at half throttle once warm.

I was concerned for snow duty, because the purpose of "-2" was to wear a deck in the summer and the blower in the winter. Last winter finally rolled around and my 551 wasn't finished, so I put the 450 blower on "-2" (which has the large pto and should have a 451 or 551). When we finally got a big snow, this was the test, did it have the same power as the older 2182? Yes, it does! Same brute that the older one is. This is even with a 450 "incorrectly" installed on a large pto tractor, which taxes it even harder than having the correct ratio blower.

My older 2182 doesn't seem as sensitive to rpm for attachment engagement. My theory is that these things are designed to be run at full throttle and I think they just don't handle the shock of the attachment load well at part throttle. In addition, I think the newer one might be jetted slightly leaner, at least in the mid range. But... get that gas Kubota engaged at full throttle and get into some tough going and it just digs down into the governor and puts out the power! Even when I got the snowblower overloaded and pulled the engine rpm down further than I intended, it still made great power, it never stalled or sputtered.

So, yeah, the gas Kubota needs a little more rpm to bring the attachment online, but once you get to full throttle, the governor responds very well. The only other quirk with the gas Kubotas is that there are some rpms where they want to shake; they are balanced best for full throttle.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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VScott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by VScott »

Tom Scott wrote:Vinny - First of all, more model number confusion... for the gas Kubota Cyclops, you mean 2182. You go through so many tractors they are just a blur coming by!

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Yes they are, 4 more today. This hobby has turned into a habit!


Not to hijack the thread, but I have been thinking about a gas Kubota from a 2182 into a 982. What's the worst that could happen???

9803412
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by 9803412 »

Tom

As you know I also have two 2182's I've been chasing a funky surging at partial throttle for 3 years on my first one and thought it was just they nature of the beast. Turned out that the spring that connects the throttle to the governor gets into a harmonic vibration and the governor can't handle it. The other one seemed to be down on power, turned out the governor was out of adjustment. Posted all the fixes on the other site that I hang out on in the Kubota engine section. Gotta go now before Vince O gets mad at me. :beer:

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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

dag1450 wrote:How far is north Dakota from Pa :lol: ..... philly Craigs list, 1782 that need help. He is dreaming at that price. lol
you talking about the one with the engine tore down? $1500 would probably give him 500 for it but what would it cost to ship?????? :o :shock: :?
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dag1450
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by dag1450 »

Yep. But now i dont see it in Philly cl? No idea on the shipping https://york.craigslist.org/grd/4928094567.html
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

JoeK
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

found a 1772, is he crazy for the price or do they really go for that much?? :cry:

http://masoncity.craigslist.org/grd/5019298749.html
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Tom Scott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by Tom Scott »

I think he is shooting pretty high there; I haven't analyzed the market on 1772's, but my guess would have been something near $3000... Might be one of those "ok honey, your right, I should sell one of my tractors..." deals. Then he tells the wife he tried to sell it but he just couldn't get a buyer...

Keep looking, you will get a better feel for what they are really selling for. A 1572 might bring a little less money too.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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BigMike
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by BigMike »

This looks like a pretty good deal to me,
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6399

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dag1450
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by dag1450 »

Wow...i missed that one in the for sale. Yea looks like a fair price. Not sure if the blower is the right model but hey...that could always b horse traded later. Good detective work Mike! :lol:
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BigMike
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

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A blind pig Dave, a blind pig :lol:

JoeK
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

well i emailed Wayne about the 1772 cub, got the address for it and it would be a 10 hr drive for me one way. to get it. dont get me wrong i had planed to figure out how to go get it then life happened.. took boat out for the first time and boom needs 3 batteries and we are supposed to mow our own lot witch means i got to get my SLT1554 going and that's going to be a pain in the u know what.... well there goes my gas money and safety buffer.... sooo kicking my self right now. every time i look online and google cub cadet diesels for sale i see several over 5K and 1600 hrs.. patience right? maybe i should buy a house first then one will fall in my lap.. " if you build it they will come" :lol:
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JoeK
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by JoeK »

Just noticed something i hope you folks can point me in the right direction on. i snapped 2 pictures of my front axle on my 2086 and the left spindle on the tire looks bent " the right one in the pictures" is this normal or did i somehow bend it? how do i fix. it looks like the top of the tire is tipping outward toward my sand bag pile. why so much sand you ask.. i drive 40 miles to work in North Dakota where its winter 9 months of the year and my duramax don't like being in 4x4 :D but really what do you guys think, anyone see this before?
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Tom Scott
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Re: 2086 diesel conversion?

Post by Tom Scott »

That angle changes as you turn the steering wheel (caster). Turn the steering wheel a bit to the right and check, then turn it further to the right and see if it straightens up.

If not, then something is bent, but probably not worth worrying over unless it is so severe you are cutting tires or rutting the lawn. It's not like these are high speed machines. If it is bent, keep your eye out for a new spindle, but I wouldn't throw one away unless it wasn't usable. RH ones are NLA, LH are $100.

If your handy with a torch and a vice/press/ingenuity you could probably bring a bent one back. The other possibility is trashed spindle bearings allowing for excessive movement...I have one of those to fix myself.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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