AGCO says it wants to buy CNH

[jswordy]

Dunno if you guys saw it, but AGCO's prez has finally come out and said the company wants to buy Case New Holland if it comes up for sale. CNH is due to be split off from Fiat as a separate company sometime in 2011. So some piece of IH lineage through CNH could actually end up owned by AGCO, where it would reside with brands such as Massey Ferguson, White and Gleaner. This has been a rumored thing for a decade.

The direct IH lineage now has nothing to do with ag equipment. It's International Truck & Engine, trading as Navistar (NAV). Navistar is the modern International Harvester Company, after it shed itself of everything but trucks in the early 1980s. My Dad, who worked for IH, gets his pension checks from Navistar.

[jbagley]

Jim,
What will happen to New Holand?Will Case-IH and New Holand still be 2 seperate companies?

[jswordy]

The AGCO prez says he wants the whole enchilada, so they will all be owned by AGCO. They have platform engineered the machinery anyway, so the brand differences are there but not at the basic level. Today's commentary is running toward the bview that it will never happen -- which means it could. LOL...

Here's a story about yesterday's comments:

Dec. 8 (Bloomberg) -- AGCO Corp. is interested in buying Fiat SpA’s tractor-making unit CNH Global NV, AGCO Chief Executive Officer Martin Richenhagen told Italian daily MF.

While Fiat Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne “doesn’t seem ready to sell yet,” AGCO is already studying the details of a possible merger both from a financial and regulatory point of view, Richenhagen told the newspaper, repeating remarks he made back in May.

Fiat shares gained 90 cents, or 6.4 percent, to 14.95 euros and were up 4.9 percent as of 1:12 p.m. in Milan trading.

[ksanders]

That's interesting. It's hard to believe the many big names from the 50's and 60's that still have tractors of the era being used will all be one company. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be on this), but does this pretty much mean that companies that have been merged over the years and now one company would be Massey-Harris, Ferguson, Ford, New Holland, Case, International Harvester, Oliver, White, Gleaner (AC). Aside from JD, that's most of the major companies from that time if I'm even close on my history.

That's no different than MTD being the universal mower company for older big named garden tractors.

[jswordy]

You are correct on the merger. AGCO's Massey Ferguson is the largest-selling tractor brand in the world.

Here are the ranks among top construction and agriculturtal manufacturers, followed by their Fortune 500 rank:

1. Caterpillar (66)
2. Deere (107)
3. Cummins (218)
4. AGCO (337)
5. Terex (402)

Strictly by ag equipment only, I'd say Deere is #1 and AGCO is #2. AGCO is an umbrella company that owns a huge array of product lines. Here is their products page:
http://www.agcocorp.com/products/products.aspx

John Deere is a very formidable and conservatively run company that, as we all know, starts rural kids off when they are babies with the JD logo. Their marketing prowess is unreal. AGCO counters that by owning a bunch of companies that are really good in several niches of the market. It is a type of GM structure, where several brands are owned and marketed on their strengths, while being platform engineered so as to hold down costs.

[ksanders]

That's an interesting take on it, especially about JD's marketing. I've talked with numerous people that have the shirts, license plates, you name it with the JD logo but are really doing good to know what a tractor is or that JD is a tractor company, let alone ever operate one or probably even see one close up. Can't deny that's powerful branding though I guess.

[jswordy]

That's an interesting take on it, especially about JD's marketing. I've talked with numerous people that have the shirts, license plates, you name it with the JD logo but are really doing good to know what a tractor is or that JD is a tractor company, let alone ever operate one or probably even see one close up. Can't deny that's powerful branding though I guess.

Man, they start kids out with JD sleeper sets and toys and cribs and whatnot, then kids can have a JD-themed first birthday, etc. After the kids grow up, if they wind up in suburbia, they buy JD lawn and garden power equipment. If they wind up in construction, it's JD dirt movers. If they wind up on the farm -- well, JD!!! Or, and there are lot of these, if they just wind up living in the country, what says rural more than JD t-shirts, sweatshirts, and ballcaps? It's brilliant marketing, and that's why when JD fell to $35 and $37 in March 2007, I bought when others were selling off. I knew the company wasn't going anywhere. Check the stock now.

BTW, boy does your avatar look familiar! Mine...

[vince_o]

Funny how the markting plays such a big roll in the sale. Like you say start them young and when they are in the point in life to buy something they go to what they were raised on. Its really to bad that deere puts their name on the big box store stuff. Then again people that brought in their troy bilt stuff thought they were buying the old product from troy new york too.

I always wanted a deere but Im so glad I have these cubs instead. After the mayfield plow day the only deere I want now is the 430. Say what you want, its a hoss!

[Farmallgray]

I think some people just want to "belong". I know a guy who has a JD license plate on the front of his truck, wears a JD hat and even has a JD wallet, but the only piece of JD equipment he owns is a lawnmower.

[bbaker]

Here's my theory on JD shirts, etc. I don't have a lot of respect for those that wear a JD clothing article and don't own anything JD. Same goes for a Harley shirt. If you are going to have the shirt or the sticker on your truck then get a hog so you're not just posing....

Along the same lines if you can't bench your own weight, please stop wearing the MMA or ultimate fighting shirts!

And if you are going to own a mustang or a camaro get one with a V8. I got my wife calling V6 mustangs poser stangs! If it don't growl like a V8 you are just posing! lol


One of the funniest photos I have seen was a scrawny kid on a scooter with a west coast choppers shirt.... and the caption read, only select few can be this bad @$$!

[bbaker]

But then again what do I know. I am the guy who went to McDonalds for breakfast and came back with an extra biscuits and gravy for the dogs.....

[red82s]

Bryan I know what you mean on the car thing. I'd just prefer to drive a lumina or camry around than drive a v6 mustang or charger.

[Mountain Heritage]

Wanna-bee's! That is what the V6 cars are. The way I see it...if it doesn't rumble and cackle like the old '60's & '70's muscle cars, it shouldn't be all heipped up to be "like" one. IT ISN'T like one.

[BigMike]

Vince,be careful what you wish for.....I wanted to take a spin on a 430,and I did

.....now I wish I hdn't

[Farmallgray]

Not that I would want one but don't bash the 6 cylinder cars. For one thing they have been around since the beginning. If they only built V-8s they wouldn't sell enough of them to make it worthwhile to build those models at all. And today's 6 cylinder cars will probably blow the doors off most of the stock small block cars from back in the day.

My big problem is with Chrysler taking all the cool names from the musclecar era and applying it to grocery getter crap today. At least there will never be a 4 door Plymouth Road Runner, GTX, or 'Cuda. As the owner of a Super Bee, I hate to see what kind of POS they put that name on next.

"Magnum V-6"? 4 door Charger? Neon R/T? c'mon. At least they seem to have gotten the Challenger right.

[ksanders]

I see what BB is saying, but I can't put down the 6 cylinders either. When I was redoing my Falcon, I could have found a 289 for it, but actually chose to pursue a 200 inline 6. I wanted a car I could drive around all of the time and just relax or cruise in. There was no point pooring all the extra gas into it or having a more complicated motor with more parts to fix on it. And besides that, there was just something neat about the old straight six's. To put that in today's modern perspective, if someone wanted a Mustang but have a long commute, they'd buy a 6 cylinder and I'm sure Ford is more than happy to sell them what they want.
All that aside, yes BB, I too get sick of the "Mustang Muscle-Car Posers" that think they own a sportscar or something. And the Challenger is the only car to get it completely right.

[bbaker]

Kevin, it's your car and you put it together like you wanted, but if BB had built it rest assured it would have had a v8 between the fenders! They do not have to be built to use any more gas that your 6 cyl, parts are a lot more common and cheap, and with a good exhaust they just sound right!

Then again, you won't catch me riding anything but a Harley, everything else just doesn't sound right!


There is some truth to what Todd was saying the new 2011 Mustang V6 has 300hp and is suppossed to get 30mpg, worth looking at but it's still a poser stang!

[Racenitro]

How many of you were aound for the real thing and owned one?
NONE of the supposed remakes are even close!!!
The Camaro is a total joke, the Challenger is about 50% and the Mustang is also about 50%.
Oh how I wish I had my 1969 Z-28 again. That was the most awesome car I ever owned. 410 HP out of 302CID and it would easily do 130 mph. Redlined at 7800 and it would get there in a hert beat.
For value, I wish I had my 1964 GTO back. (According to Pontiac's original No. 2 man behind Delorean, Jim Wangers, it would be in the neghborhood of $500,000, he is the one that told me the complete story behind the car) I traded it in on my Z-28...not knowing it was one of less than 500 ever made. The combination is not legal to compete in NHRA due to the less than 500 unit prod. 389 CID 4spd with FACTORY AIR....never had any warranty when new due to the 4spd AC combo. That was the rare part....and GM tried to discourage every order for that combination and if you stll wanted it...NO WARRANTY PERIOD! I got mine second hand after a little old lady pulled out in front of my 1936 Dodge PU Street Rod and ran me off the road an into a tree on my way to church on a sunday morning..Her Comment to the police...HE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE COMMING DOWN THE ROAD AT THAT TIME!

Add 1972 and 1973 Elkhart Green Corvettes (Only two years that made used that color) to the collection of REAL sports cars...

and I would have a real stable of fun if there were still here.

Have to settle for 1978 Corvette Pace Car. and a ride in my Son's poser Mustang! (BB..LOL) That is his second stang....

[wham]

Not mine but I owned one of these except mine had the real Oldsmobile Rallye Rims on it . Anyway reading this conversation reminded me of my Son recently driving one of his girlfriends car, it was a 10' Camaro with a V6 . He was totally disappointed . Said my 96' Dodge 1500SLT would leave it sitting on take-off and wasn't even sure it would catch up on top end . (Didn't want to ask how he knew) But thinking back to my Rallye 350 olds and looking at what's out there now for "muscle cars" is kinda sad . This Olds had the 350 Gold Block I believe they called it that was tuning out about 325hp ! Anyway here's the picture of one just like mine from the 70's . Only about 1000 of these made ;