Old trucks... lets see them!

bbaker · Post by **bbaker** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:32 pm

Wow, lots of good chevy info in this thread. I still am not sure what I am gonna do with the old trucks since I bought the newer one.

Frank, you may get 4-500K out of a diesel IF PROPERLY Maintained. How many used trucks do you really see that were properly maintained. It has always amazed me with tractors, and trucks etc, the amount of abuse they sustain and the lack of general maintainence.

As far as Ford being the best? IDK, do you really wanna go down that path? lol

Amigatec · Post by **Amigatec** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:19 pm

bbaker wrote:Nahh, I think I can get this one to get a little better. May have to switch the cam to do it, but the 350's of that vinatge didn't get that much better. And I realize this is a heavy truck, so I know it's not gonna get the greatest, but still 8.5? yikes!

From what I can gather, is that engine is one of the greatest 454's chevy produced as far as induction, head desgign, compression etc. But it does have it's shortcoming. The exhaust is really restrictive, you can't even hardly hear the thing run, the stock injectors are junk and leak with any miles on them. The trick is to change the injectors with mustang 5.0 stock injectors, they are an exact fit. It just so happens I have a set of those injectors I just couldn't throw away, so a new fuel pressure reg, the injectors (much better design not prone to leak) and doing somthing about the restrictive exhaust has got to really help.

I have looked and looked at diesels. The problem is to get one I could afford they all had well over 200K on them, and that scares me. I had a 95 chevy 6.5 diesel that I loved, however at 176K the injector pump needed replaced. The cheapest I could get that done was 1,800 bucks.

Now if I planned to drive this truck a lot and take it on trips etc, I would have been a little more interested in a diesel, but for just around the farm a few 100 miles a year, it prolly isn't going to make much difference.

Plus the gas motor I feel comfortable working on. I always feel like I am going to screw a diesel up if I touch them.

I used to rebuild those 5.7/6.2/6.9 Injection pumps for less than $200 in parts. The seal kit was around $30, the Gov ring was about $90, and if you needed the restrictor fitting that was another $30 or so, and these list prices.

Amigatec · Post by **Amigatec** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:23 pm

Just so everybody will know the 6.9/7.3 liter Ford were converted gas engines. IH made a 404/446 gas motor that was used as the model for the Diesel. The 5.7 Olds was also converted gas, but the 6.2/6/5 were not, these were built was diesels from the beginning.

I spent 25 years as a Truck/Diesel/Heavy Equipment Mechanic.

Racenitro · Post by **Racenitro** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:37 pm

Key word is MODEL...

The block in the mid to late 7.3 is way thicker than any gas engine and way thicker than the 99 and up blocks. The blocks are not the same at all, unlike the Olds which was actually a converted gas engine.

BB....

I have no problem going there since I have a lot of history with 4 different brands of trucks going back 50 plus years and in most every configuration and weight class of Pick-up plus suburbans, broncos, blazers, and carryalls, 2wd and 4x4.

One reason brakes are the same is that axles are made by aftermarket firms such as Dana and Sterling, etc.

BB427's in a truck in most instances are tall deck blocks and have a special manifold and destributor that will NOT interchange with other SB and BB engines. To use a regular manifold on a tal deck, you have to use the special spacer plates that are made to adapt the manifold to the tall deck.

The racing community used to have an great desire for tall deck blocks due to their extra strength.

454's have externally balanced engines so the balancer and flywheel are not interchangable with any other BBC or SBC engine. 366(396 block), 396 and 427 engines are internally balanced and flywheels are interchangable. I believe the 400 sbc had external balancing also, I could be wrong, never dealt with this engine due to overheating problems.

Yes, lifters do interchange but that is all between sbc and bbc's as well as distributors on some models. Counterweights differed between most engines but are interchangable.

427's and 454's use the same block Park No. 3963516 "Bare Block" (Wont be the number for you rblock this is for 4 bolt mains)...Block assemblies differed for open and closed chambers, both have 4.251 bore....crank is the difference due to stroke...427 3.76 and 454 4.00.
427's came with both closed chamber and open chamber heads. 454's only had open chamber heads, not sure about trucks though.

The bare truck block for 427's is No. 340215

I even got out all of my BBC and SBC manuals and special parts books from the 70's and 80's. Have lots of data on BBC's since that is what I used in my fuel dragsters. Definitely one of the best engines ever designed along with the SBC.

bbaker · Post by **bbaker** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:27 pm

Ok so this thread isn't dead..... ole BB may have lost his ever lovin mind though. He bought another old truck today!

Picked up a pretty nice 84 chevy half ton for the cab and front dog house for the 77 Dually. This pic will have to do till I actually bring it home, but yeah... 4 trucks.. wife isn't happy! lol Seems to run good, and only issue with it is the auto tranny you have to shift manualy it has very little rust, and was bought for less than what a couple of new front fenders cost!

Even has fairly new long tube headrers, guy says it's a 305, but how do you tell a 305 from a 350 from the outside?

cholloway · Post by **cholloway** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:58 am

I've seen some GM engines with 5.0 or 5.7 cast into the rear of the block near the distributor.
You might get lucky too.

Don T · Post by **Don T** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:35 pm

bbaker wrote:Wow, lots of good chevy info in this thread. I still am not sure what I am gonna do with the old trucks since I bought the newer one.

Frank, you may get 4-500K out of a diesel IF PROPERLY Maintained. How many used trucks do you really see that were properly maintained. It has always amazed me with tractors, and trucks etc, the amount of abuse they sustain and the lack of general maintainence.

As far as Ford being the best? IDK, do you really wanna go down that path? lol

B B
I don`t think he should, Ford 99 diesel is not to bad a diesel but the bow tie has only a tranny to help it ( Alison). Me I drive a dodge ram 1995 with the Cummings diesel. 160 stock hp and lots a torque. I added hp till I now have ( dyno proven 324 hp and 586 torque to the back wheels). I got that nuch hp out of the diesel with just a few $$. that can`t be done with the other brands unless you got much $$$$$$$.I tow just under 10000 lbs now and get 15 on a not to windy day and some hills. no other diesel can brag that now!I get 19 on short trips and 26 on cruse at 68 mph all day empty. If I could afford a newer truck it would have to have a Cummings, Alison tranny, and a Ford body.I have air ride on back for the fiver and would on the Ford. For now i`ll keep my 1995 Ram diesel for my towing needs.

I tow this now !

VScott · Post by **VScott** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:09 pm

BB, On the front of the engine just above the water pump on the right side of the engine you can see part of the deck protruding just below the front of the cylinder head. There is a code stamped in there. Post that code on here when you can get it and I can tell you the year, what actual vehicle it came from and horsepower. I have a really good book for decoding Chevy blocks.

Racenitro · Post by **Racenitro** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:09 pm

BB..
try this site..it should help you identify the engine..but I bet it is a 305...(Boat anchor)

http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/sblock.php

bbaker · Post by **bbaker** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:38 pm

that boat anchor runs pretty good Frank. I drove it home last night. it has long tubes and a Weiland aluminum intake, rest looks stock. The tranny turbo 350 is shot though!

However that cab is probably the nicest original condition cab I have seen anywhere around here. So..... after some research, I am gonna use the 84 blue cab and dog house, on the 77 4x4 dually frame, with the 86 454. That way I will end up with a 1 ton 4 speed 454 powered 4x4 dually, for a toy.

I will then sell two beds, a 305, a 350, may keep extra 4 speed for a spare, and take the rest to the scrap yard. I should end up in good shape investment wise, as I haven't given much for any of them, and have one heck of an old truck to play with.

Now if I can just talk AJ, Rick, and a few others to meet me up at the farm a weekend this spring to help with all the swapping. Someone gotta take pics when I have a cab hung under my New Holland by a chain!

Racenitro · Post by **Racenitro** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:11 pm

I had a 305 in my GMC Conversion van......Not enough power when the wind was strong......did get over 300,000 out of it before a heater hose broke and I cracked a head from overheating.

What are you going to use for flywheel on the 454......must be an external balanced flywheel.......

bbaker · Post by **bbaker** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:34 pm

454 is hooked to a manual tranny, so it should be an easy swap. The only auto is behind the 305.

Farmallgray · Post by **Farmallgray** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:56 am

I wouldn't call a 305 a boat anchor. Not a hot rod engine for sure but they have a pretty decent combination of torque and fuel milage for a 2wd 1/2 ton truck.

Amigatec · Post by **Amigatec** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:03 am

Don T wrote:
bbaker wrote:Wow, lots of good chevy info in this thread. I still am not sure what I am gonna do with the old trucks since I bought the newer one.

Frank, you may get 4-500K out of a diesel IF PROPERLY Maintained. How many used trucks do you really see that were properly maintained. It has always amazed me with tractors, and trucks etc, the amount of abuse they sustain and the lack of general maintainence.

As far as Ford being the best? IDK, do you really wanna go down that path? lol
B B
I don`t think he should, Ford 99 diesel is not to bad a diesel but the bow tie has only a tranny to help it ( Alison). Me I drive a dodge ram 1995 with the Cummings diesel. 160 stock hp and lots a torque. I added hp till I now have ( dyno proven 324 hp and 586 torque to the back wheels). I got that nuch hp out of the diesel with just a few $$. that can`t be done with the other brands unless you got much $$$$$$$.I tow just under 10000 lbs now and get 15 on a not to windy day and some hills. no other diesel can brag that now!I get 19 on short trips and 26 on cruse at 68 mph all day empty. If I could afford a newer truck it would have to have a Cummings, Alison tranny, and a Ford body.I have air ride on back for the fiver and would on the Ford. For now i`ll keep my 1995 Ram diesel for my towing needs.

I tow this now !

Cummins has been building Diesel engines since the 1920's so they have a long record to back them up. And i have to agree the Allison is the ONLY auto tranny for heavy duty use. What I would like to see is a 3306 Cat and Allison in a 1 ton truck, now THAT is a truck

Racenitro · Post by **Racenitro** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:08 am

Pat..
Dodge with a Ford engine.....
You know that ford ownes the Cummins Engine that is in the Dodge. I will not argue that the Cummins is an excellent engine.

I do have weight tickets showing that my F-350 4x4 7.3 PSD can easily tug around a gross of 25,300. I get 15 mpg on an average at taht weight and it is bone stock.

I run around all the time at over 11500#, 13,800 with trailer empty.

The best combination would be a Ford F-350 or F-450 Cummins and Allison transmission. (The allison is the only good part of a chevy duramax)

The allison auto is in a lot of over the road trucks these days and is also used a lot in off road trucks at rock quarries, coal mines and other sites.
Picture taken after towing 200 miles...

Amigatec · Post by **Amigatec** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:39 am

I used to work at a Rock Quarry and the Boss liked Ford Trucks. I had to remind him that we had 5 Ford Trucks, One had a Cummins NT 300, One had a 3208 Cat, One had an International 6.9 Diesel, One had a Detroit Diesel 8.2 liter with Allison (Both were made by GM), and the last one had a 330 Ford Gas engine, and that was the one he wanted to sell.

He quit bragging about Ford.

Ben Morong · Post by **Ben Morong** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:02 pm

From a prior Eliot ME tractor show:

Post by **Scott C.** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:27 am

Local car show last summer. The only truck there with a Cub Cadet in the back, of course.

Racenitro · Post by **Racenitro** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:33 pm

Pat...the one with the cummis was ALL FORD just like the 300 I-6 was all ford.

THe Straight 6 00CID was one of the best engines ever made. UPS bought several 100,000 of them when Ford decided to end production of them. THat was the main engine in their brown delivery trucks before the went to diesels.

SWilliams · Post by **SWilliams** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:24 am

This is now the oldest commercial chassis rig we have. 1984 with a POS 429 in it. Wish we had kept one of the 535s we had to drop into this thing.
This engine has had some serious work to fit into our station. Shaved 7" off the hose bed, removed the hose reel, dropped the light bar, new tank bottom and wiring. All done in house by myself and a couple other folks. Now to get some lighting installed and rebuild the relief valve.

That all comes behind a new heater unit for the other LaFrance, scene lighting on it and a new oil pan on 540 along with a new gas tank and king pins.
Then maybe I can pull the primer motor out of the tanker and see why it isn't operational. Oh well that's why I have a 4X8 dry erase board in the office, I just wish they would let me clear the thing off before they add more......

Post by **Scott C.** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:36 pm

Brrrrrr.......

J Hayes · Post by **J Hayes** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:27 pm

Scott !! Now yer makin my feel bad hurt!
All those time that old truck got ya out of predicaments and you leave her out in the cold.. want to put er up for adoption ? She could stay in a semi heated garage here .

Post by **Scott C.** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:05 am

Yeah, I should be strung up for doing that. You know how it goes sometimes.

I am at the place that has that blue B-Model I posted a picture of a while back. I can't wait to see it up close.
I'll get pictures.

Amigatec · Post by **Amigatec** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:29 am

Racenitro wrote:Pat...the one with the cummis was ALL FORD just like the 300 I-6 was all ford.

THe Straight 6 00CID was one of the best engines ever made. UPS bought several 100,000 of them when Ford decided to end production of them. THat was the main engine in their brown delivery trucks before the went to diesels.

No Ford doesn't own Cummins, at one time they owned about 20% of the stock but not any more.

Yes the 300CID motor was used by UPS for some time, It was a good motor.

Flatbedford · Post by **Flatbedford** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:15 pm

Here's my '70 F350. 360 big block, T18 4spd, Dana 70 4.10 rear, factory installed 9' platform/stake bed.

At show, with Cub.

Racenitro · Post by **Racenitro** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:37 am

Ford actually owned 10% and chrysler owned 10%. They purchased the stock to keep Cummins afloat. Were required to sell it back after 10 years which ford did.

Post by **Scott C.** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:24 am

: Ford.jpg (21.07 KiB) Viewed 10496 times

wdeturck · Post by **wdeturck** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:43 pm

Brand new 1979 IH Scout purchased in 11/10 from the original dealer in WV that put it away.
1824 miles.
Window sticker in the window.
Pastic on the sun visors.
Original everything.

Don Bowers e-mailed this to me

Amigatec · Post by **Amigatec** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:46 pm

Why even the air in the tires is Factory!!!

Farmallgray · Post by **Farmallgray** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:50 pm

I don't have a pic of it but there is a Scout about 10 miles from me that has something like 14 miles on it.

Cub Cadet Collectors dot com

Old trucks... lets see them!

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