Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

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Tom Scott
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Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

The starter on 2182-2 had been sounding weak with a known strong battery, so off to the horrors of replacing.

I have read Todd Markle's description of the large gear drive starter replacement, but I wasn't thrilled about removing the right hand motor mount plate to drill the hole for the positive terminal clearance. The other option was to remove the exhaust manifold to allow drilling the motor mount in place, but my laziness didn't feel like touching that right now either. I decided that maybe I would be the one guy that could get the factory starter out in one piece without jacking up the engine to remove the right hand motor mount.

The main obstacle to removing the starter is the motor plate. When you pull the starter rearward, the starter ear interferes with the plate before the nose cone tapers enough to raise the starter. I figured that maybe if I grind some off the motor mount, I could then pull the starter rearward enough to start raising it as the cone tapers. Before this continues, I will let the cat out of the bag... I was not the one guy to remove the starter in this way. I defy anyone to do it.

I ground back the motor mount all I was willing to without feeling like I was going to weaken it and the starter was still trapped. So, I ended up disassembling the starter in place, and the cone was still trapped. I then cut the nose off the cone while it was in the tractor, and just barely got it out. Pics...
Motor mount ground for starter ear
Motor mount ground for starter ear
2182-2 modified motor mount.JPG (1.17 MiB) Viewed 7170 times
Starter after disassembly and cutting nose cone
Starter after disassembly and cutting nose cone
2182-2 old starter.JPG (1.3 MiB) Viewed 7170 times
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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Tom Scott
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

The starter I purchased looks relatively stock, but it is a gear drive starter that should have more torque than stock. The difference is that it has a planetary gear drive so the motor is not offset from the output shaft like the one Todd uses. These types of starters are known as PMGR (permanent magnet gear reduction). I bought mine through Amazon, but the company was DB Electrical. The part number is SMT0376 and the cost was $89.00
LInk to the starter I purchased:http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-12226-new ... -pmgr.aspx

Keep in mind that I am not recommending this over what Todd uses. I ended up here due to my idea that I could avoid the work of drilling the motor mount for the positive lead clearance. I bought the replacement starter before I tried removing the old. Had I known I would not be successful in removing the old easily, I may have bought the larger gear drive model.

So at this point I was stuck. My replacement starter, although a gear drive, still had a nose cone. The advantage of Todd's large starter is no nose cone, so once you go through the awful job of removing the stock starter and drilling the positive lead clearance hole, in and out with the starter is relatively easy. So, what to do... I could remove the motor mount as I had been avoiding, but then I would be stuck with that again if I ever had to remove it. Or I could return the starter I bought and get the larger gear drive without the nose cone... Or, I could soldier on with what might turn out to be a bad decision. I chose door number three.

So, the only way to get the replacement starter in without removing the motor mount was to cut a portion of the ring in the motor plate that supports the starter. Pic of motor plate with marks for my first cut try:
2182-2 motor plate before modification.JPG
2182-2 motor plate before modification.JPG (1.56 MiB) Viewed 7168 times
I ended up needing quite a bit more than my intial marks:
2182-2 modified motor plate.JPG
2182-2 modified motor plate.JPG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 7168 times
I needed all this and the pocket I had created by grinding on the motor mount plate to get the new starter in, but I can now get the starter in and out very easily. So, next to discuss the repercussions of cutting away part of the starter mounting hole in the motor plate...
Last edited by Tom Scott on Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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Tom Scott
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

So, that great big starter mount hole... The outer portion of the ring doesn't provide a whole lot of strength, but some. The main reason manufacturers surround the starter with a ring is for correctly indexing the starter to the flywheel ring gear. The risk I was taking was that as I cut away the outside of the circle, the starter could potentially move further away from the ring gear and create a bad mesh of the gears. My old cut starter cone fit very precisely in the motor plate bore, so I decided to take the risk. With some welding and grinding I could repair the motor plate if needed.

With the nose cone cut away enough to install the new starter, there is still no perceptible movement allowed by the partial bore that I left. I guess about a third of the circle was removed.

I decided that although it may not be necessary, I wanted to replace the strength lost by cutting away part of the ring. I used bearing retainers from Tractor Supply. They come in a pair. The one I modified is shown below next to one as purchased:
TSC PF-209 bearing flanges.JPG
TSC PF-209 bearing flanges.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 7168 times
I then installed the starter using the partial bearing flange to add strength to the missing outside ring. In particular, I like that the bearing flange has a long turned out lip that acts as a strong-back and will add a lot of stiffness to the assembly. As installed with starter, the lip is noticeable near the cone:
2182-2 starter installed, side view.JPG
2182-2 starter installed, side view.JPG (1015.82 KiB) Viewed 7168 times
Front view through grill opening:
2182-2 starter installed, front view.JPG
2182-2 starter installed, front view.JPG (1.26 MiB) Viewed 7168 times
The stiffener ring I added does nothing to replace the indexing that was provided by that portion of the motor plate, but the new starter was still very tight in the partial bore. I replaced the mounting bolts and nuts with 5/16 Grade 8 and used deformed thread top-lock nuts, torqued to Grade 8 spec.

I am happy with the results, but when I need a starter for the other 2182, we shall see what mood strikes me. Again, I am not recommending this, it is just where I ended up to avoid a bit more work. The engine starts great now, sounds good while cranking.
Last edited by Tom Scott on Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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TWheaton
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by TWheaton »

Nice looking work. Way beyond my what it would look like if I had tried that :oops:

9803412
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by 9803412 »

BTDT on a 1772 and a 2182, no need for the reinforcement ring.

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dag1450
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by dag1450 »

Looks good Tom! All of the cuts and grinds u did look like factory. I like the reinforcing bracket....why not buy some cheap insurance! who wants to replace the "flywheel ring gear" cause the starter moved or flexed and chewed the teeth. Dave
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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Tom Scott
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

Thanks for the comments guys. Yeah, I mentioned in my write up that I probably didn't need the reinforcing ring; I just wanted it, so in it went.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by VScott »

Nice work, Tom. I haven't had to replace the starter on my 2182 yet, but I am in desperate need of a water pump, and I am on the trail of another 2182 that will need one. Not to hijack this thread, but have you had to replace yours yet? It looks relatively tight in there, and I'm wondering if there are any shortcuts or pitfalls to watch out for? One of your good tutorials would be a big help.

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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

Vinny - Tag, your it! No, haven't had to do a water pump on either of my 2182s. Yeah, access looks to be the real obstacle on this one.

I just wandered out to the garage and peeked under the hood. At first glance it looks like the radiator should come out. Might be one of those cases where trying to work on a ship in a bottle isn't worth it. So, as long as getting the hoses off the radiator doesn't go bad, shouldn't be too bad after that.

I do have the factory Kubota manual for the engine if you need any torque specs. I can scan any pages you need and send them to you.

So, I will be looking forward to a good "Vinny Tutorial" on this one! Take good pics, we loves pics!
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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Farmallgray
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Farmallgray »

More than one way to skin a cat. Nice job Tom. I wasn't aware there was a planetary gear reduction starter.

I like your analogy of building a ship in a bottle. In my 30 plus years working on these tractors, I have come to the conclusion that for the most part,
the "short cut" takes longer than removing the offending item that is in the way. I am always amused that people will fight with something for hours to avoid removing the engine (liquid cooled models excluded) when you can have the engine out in a half hour and save a lot of cussing.
See my IH, Cub Cadet and tractor pulling youtube videos;
http://www.youtube.com/user/farmallgray

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Tom Scott
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

Todd - Thanks. With the experience you have with the diesels, I was hoping to get your perspective. This planetary gear drive starter probably doesn't have quite the torque of the one you use, but it is listed as a replacement for the stock diesel starter and spins the gas engine very well.

I think the worst "ship in a bottle" example is when a Magnum needs a magneto or starter. People will butcher the tin and spend more time than just doing it right and yanking the motor out.

For the Kubotas it is worth trying to avoid removing the engine if possible. For the water pump Vinny needs to do, I think the fan is too close to the radiator to work on it without pulling the radiator.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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PGHsteelworker
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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by PGHsteelworker »

Tom, Thanks for the write up. You do nice work. My 2182 starts and runs great but the 1782 is probably going to need a starter up grade in the near future due to slow cranking when hot. I appreciate and enjoy your detailed write ups. Keep up the good work.

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Re: Kubota Starter Replacement (1772, 1782, 2182, etc.)

Post by Tom Scott »

Tim - Thanks, good to have you aboard. Good job on that lift arm!

For the starter, make sure you also check out how Todd Markle (Farmallgray) does the Kubota starters. He uses a larger offset gear drive. I looked up the one Todd uses, it is 1.2KW vs. 0.8KW for the one I used (Kilowatts, power). So although the one I used will have more torque than the original, the one Todd uses has 50% more power than mine. His method and starter numbers are in the "Tools and How To" sub forum further down the page.

I don't think there is a wrong answer, you just have to decide if a little better than stock or the monster starter on steroids is for you!
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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