Trying to start 782D again.

[Daniel Chestnut]

Been messing around with my 782D again since it seems to rain all the time. When I bought this one a little over three years ago, I started it and shut it off several times. Always started right up and seemed okay, so I made the deal on it. Can't figure out what difference it would make, but it poured down the rain on the way home. Got it home and it has never started since. I've had people tell me to install a bigger battery, starter, glow plugs bad, rack in the injection pump stuck, and etc. I checked the glow plugs that was in it and they was okay, but still decided to try new ones. Had the starter rebuilt. Checked the rack in the injection pump and it was free. Checked valve clearance. Then I turned my attention to the battery issue. It turn over fast for a short period then slows way down. Installed a second ground cable. Cleaned other connections. Had the biggest lawn & garden battery I could find in it and still had the same problem. Then decided to install a second positive and ground cable. Then got a bigger tractor battery. Engine spins over fast now, but still won't start. All it does is smoke. I've changed the fuel filters and bled the air out of the system. Tried having the throttle set in different places. It has one new injector cause I broke one replacing the fuel lines. Can't think of anything else to try. Anyone else have any suggestions? When your are setting on the seat, what direction does the cooling fan turn? Only thing I can think of is maybe when the starter was rebuilt they somehow rebuilt it to turn the opposite direction. Course, you would think if that was the case it would be noisey from the starter teeth trying to engage the ring gear thats worn the other way. Don't know. Would just like to get it running so I could take it to shows. Don't plan on using it for anything. Anyways, any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Amigatec]

I was told by a starter shop that polarity means nothing to a starter, it will always turn the same direction.

We had a Loader that had sat for a few years and we needed to get it started. (We had borrowed a few parts to use on other equipment.) I installed a rebuilt starter, it started and ran fine, but when i went to hook up the battery cable to the alternator, it would throw a LOT of sparks, I thought i had a bad alternator. The battery cables were all black so I traced them out and sure enough the cables were backwards.

If you hauled it home in the rain, you might want to check the Air filter since it is blowing black smoke. I have seen air travel through the exhaust back through the motor and clog the air filter, and since it was raining it may have gotten wet soot in the filter. I have taped a few of these shut to keep the air out.

[Dave C]

pat is right on the starters not caring about the polarity and the bendix will only work in one direction...

there actually is a neat writeup somewhere explaining why the starter doesnt care... basically it comes down to the fact that it actually switches polarity itself 2 times per revolution in order to keep it spinning...

As far as your starter you would have been WAY better off buying a new gear reduction starter rather then rebuilding what u had....

As far as the smoke is it white or black??

how long are you holding your glow plugs for?

also the new glow plugs your gonna want to bypass the glow plug indicator its stealing valuable power from them babies..

glow plugs for 20 seconds or better is not uncommon,

dave

[BigMike]

Daniel,make sure the small electric pump on the left side of the battery is pumping fuel TO the injector pump.
I had trouble with the original starter and did the gear reduction up grade Todd Markle wrote up.I also did the glow plug up grade as well(again,written up by Todd)and now I can glow the plugs 10 seconds and it will take right off.

[mgonitzke]

Did you remove the fuel tank and clean all the gel and crap out of it when you changed the fuel filters? Also don't forget you need to be using Power Service or a similar additive if you are using the newer low-sulfur diesel.

[DougK109]

When my 1782 did the same thing I was stumped. I took the head off to adjust the valves, while checking cyl. pressure, and one cly. had none. Here one valve for some reason was stuck. I barely tapped it, it loosened, and it has ran since. Just a possibility?

[Racenitro]

You may laugh at this procedure but I used it to start my 580B Backhoe after it sat for 2 years.
I used a 1500 watt heat gun and stuck it in the intake and let it blow hot air for 15 minutes. On the 580 I used a small shot of ether but that is a no-no for the glow plug engines. This may heat up the combustion chamber enough to help it start since diesels LOVE hot chambers. You may want to rotate the engine a little from time to time so hot air can enter the chambers. I had been cranking ont he 580B for weeks trying to start it. It fired right up using this method. I left the heat gun in while I tried to start it so it got HOT air in the combustion chamber.

[Daniel Chestnut]

Guess I forgot a few things in my first post. I installed a new air filter. Even tried disconnecting the air cleaner to air intake manifold hose. I made and installed new glow plug wires and then attached my battery booster pack to them so I new for sure they was getting power. I've held the glow plugs anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute. I desconnected everything that had to do with the glow plugs so they wouldn't come on a give it a little shot of ether. I had the valve cover off to make sure the valves wasn't stuck and adjusted. I didn't clean the fuel tank cause it was half full and it looked clean to me. Had thought about draining it and putting new in it even though I don't think it needs it. The smoke that I get out of it is black. I read about all the upgrades before and I do plan on doing them. I just decided it wasn't worth spending all the extra money on right now when it won't even run. Besides it should run now with all the original stuff on it, cause it did when it was new. I will double check on the electric pump. I know it makes noise when the key is on. I remember when I replaced the fuel lines that one went from the electric pump to the secondary fuel filter. Then one went from the filter up to the injection pump where the bleeder is located at.

[red82s]

I'd double check that the fuel lines are connected to their proper locations and did you bleed the system at the primer fuel filter location? I think you're suppose to bleed it there first and then at the injector location if it even matters. The bottom of the fuel tank has a filter screen that could be badly clogged with gel. I wouldn't try any of the mods yet either until you figure out why its not starting. I don't have any of the mods on mine except new glo plugs and it starts awesome.

[MattS]

I was working on a friends Kubota last week. I don't know the model, but it is similar to our Cubs. Anyway, It ran fine last year, but this year it just wouldn't run. After checking all the usual problems that cause a no start in diesels, I pulled the muffler off. Boom, it fired right up. Soot build up had restricted the exhaust enough to cause a no start condition. It may be a long shot, but it's worth a try.

[Amigatec]

That is possible as well. If the soot got wet it could cause problems. Diesels like lots of air.

[Daniel Chestnut]

Had a little time today so I looked at it some more. I know when I replaced the fuel lines I did them one at a time. I bled the system at the filter, the pump, and last at the injectors. I checked to make sure the fuel pump was getting plenty of fuel to the injection pump and it had a good stream. Also removed the muffler, but it still didn't start. Thought about next time when I have a chance I would change the fuel. What do you guys run in them? Off road diesel like for farm tractors or on road like for trucks.

[FERGUSON]

Have you checked the compression?

[TLoschen84]

It wouldn't matter whether you ran on or off road fuel in your tractor, the only difference between the two is that off road fuel has red dye in it. As far as why it won't start, I'd check compression on all three cylinders. When you brought it home in the rain was the muffler pointing forward like they come from the factory or had it been turned straight up like we all do to ours? If it was brought home in the rain with it turned upwards rain could have gotten down into the cylinders and caused a "deadlock" situation when you went to start it the next time. When water fills a cylinder it can't be compressed and the started will turn the motor over until the water can't go anywhere. It will sometimes cause broken valves, but you said the valves all worked properly, so the other thing it can cause is a blown head gasket, which a compression test would show if it was blown. It could also have broken a rod or piston rings too. I have seen this happen before on farm tractors with straight pipes left uncovered during rain storms. All just a few suggestions to check. I have a 782D also and they are definitely finicky at times, but are great when they run right. Keep us posted!

[mgonitzke]

If you are using on-road diesel you need a lubricity additive like Power Service if it is the new ultra-low sulfur diesel. That's one difference.

[Amigatec]

I have to agree on the fuel the only difference is the color. It is usually added at the refinery, but sometimes the local Oil company adds it, in fact the Oil Company offered to sell us some Off-Road fuel without the dye to run in our Pickups. I used to run the red stuff in my 6.2L pickup, with no problem.

[Amigatec]

Another thought after I reread the original post, most Diesels will run backwards, in other words, if you shift into reverse and then pull start it, most will start and run. I have seen Caterpillar and Detroit Diesel do this. I started an Old Cat Scrapper this way once, I didn't know what gear I had it in. They sound funny and smoke comes out of the air cleaner. LOL DON'T run it this way the oil pump is spinning backwards.

Most often it is caused by driving up a small hill and the motor dies, it starts to roll backwards and the driver lets the clutch out to restart it, and it starts backwards. I have done it myself.

I am beginning to think the rings are stuck. Diesels like to be run hard, just idling them around and not getting them hot will cause the rings to stick. If the rings are stuck it will blow black smoke. I have seen the Olds Diesel do this many times. The cure was always to tell the owner to take a trip and "pin her ears back", after a few hard miles the rings will loosen.

[Amigatec]

Another thought is does the electric fuel ever shut off? I could be 'sucking air'. If a fuel line is just a tiny bit loose it will cause the pump to suck just a tiny bit of air and not start. The worst of these are the Pickups with dual-fuel tanks, if the changeover valve doesn't switch all the way, or if a piece of dirt gets hung in the valve they will suck air. Another thing you might check and I know this is true for the Roosamaster/Stanadyne pumps, they will not start if the return line is plugged, don't know if this is true for the others, I have worked on a lot of Diesels in my life, but have no experience with Kudota Diesels, but I believe the pump is a copy of a Bosch pump.

[TLoschen84]

Just to clarify, both on and off road diesel are ultra low sulfur diesel and if you wish to have a lubricity additive you would need it no matter which color of fuel you use. I am in the oil and fuel business and farm too, so I run both on and off road fuels. They are the same fuel pulled out of the terminal, there is just a dye added to the off road fuel so that government officials can identify it as a no-tax fuel. The dye is now added in at the terminal and is required by law to be done that way. If a fuel company sells clear fuel as off road fuel they are just simply delivering on road fuel and billing it as off road fuel. The only reason that fuel would be a factor for the reason this engine won't run is if the fuel in the tank is old or has drawn moisture. New fuel of either color will not cause you problems, but it definatley doesn't hurt to add lubricity additives.

[Daniel Chestnut]

My fuel pump seems to run all the time. Makes noise all the time anyways. I've replaced all of the return lines. The exhaust on my tractor was on the factory way facing forward. I had it loaded facing forwards also. I haven't checked the compression yet, but I plan on it next time I have a chance. I think I've read when it should have 300 to 400 psi per cylinder.

[Amigatec]

I bet it is sucking air somewhere, the pump should shutoff or at least slow way down. It doesn't take much air in a fuel system to keep a diesel from starting. I would start by removing the fuel line from the pump and using a new one in a fuel can, bleed the pump really well and see if it starts. That pump has to build several hundred pounds before it can inject the fuel. I am not sure how much pressure the injectors need, but I would bet it is somewhere around 1500 to 1800 psi. They only inject a very tiny bit of fuel at a time, so any air will make a difference.

[Amigatec]

I worked on an Lincoln Continental Diesel years ago that was sucking air. It took 6 weeks to find it. It had an O ring in the fuel filter that was bad. First I had to find a Manual for it, they only made 2000 of these and they had a BMW 2.6 Turbo Diesel in them. I had to build tools to set the timing belt, I managed to burn up the starter before we finished. All of that for a .50 cent O-ring. I think we had the pump off and checked at the pump shop also. Keep looking you will find it.