1872 where do I go from here?

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vince_o
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1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

Ok So I hooked up a jumper to the starter on the 1872 and the starter is bad. Now what about doing this?

I have a Command 18 out of a cyclops with a bad coil. What would I ned to do to put in in place of the mag 18? IM Not worried about the wiring as the PO melted the harness so Ill be making one.

Do I need a differant drive shaft?

Will the bolt hole from the mag plate and the command bolt up? I know the plates are differant lengths.

Iff I want to use the deck, do I need to switch the pto's?

Im not dumping money into the mag eng till I pull the heads and look inside. I know the command is good, except for the coil.

TIA
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junderwood
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by junderwood »

Vince,

Drop the command in with the cyclops engine plate. Should bolt right up. The cyclops clutch should be fine. Not sure on the drive shaft. I switched mine to a CV style since the original was wore out. You may have some trouble with removing the air cleaner. It tucks under the firewall and can be hard to get off. I cut a chunk out of the rear to make it work.

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

John

The cyclops isnt a super will it still fit?

It dosnt have an air cleaner cover on it now anyway.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by junderwood »

Vince,

The frame between GT's and Supers are similar in the front. The additional length is in the rear. An 186X series Command is a bolt in with the plate. The magnum plate doesn't have the right holes in it but could be drilled. One good thing to do before you pull the magnum is take a lot of measurements to make sure the PTO is in the same location after the new engine is in.

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Jlaws
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Jlaws »

Vince , seems like a lot of work over a bad starter , can't you find a good used starter to try on that magnum .
Do you have a coil for the command ? I would think a starter for the 18 mag would be easier to find than the coil on the command and the price can't be that much different .
Maybe I'm missing something here ?
I see a lot of cub cadets while going down the tracks , its a shame I can't pull over and ask about them .

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Tom Scott »

Vince - I think I would go Jess's way on this; get a good starter for the Magnum. If for some reason the Magnum is not salvageable, the starter could be resold.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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vince_o
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

Well I now that there is a good bit of water in the pistons, more on the right side. This is inda why I didnt want to get a starter for it right now. Ill use the Mag 18 or the command 18, what ever is left over for the 482 project.

I have a couple of coils left over from the 18 command project for my welder last winter. Just need to find them. After finding water in the eng kinda scares me.

Maybe Ill just pull the heads and see whats in there. If it looks ok, LOL, Il pull the fuel tank and start rewiring it. Then move on to the next surprise.

Heres a pic of the wiring. And its all melted going to the starter.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Farmallgray »

Vince,
All the cyclops models with the command engine used the bigger pto clutch pulley. If you use it you will have to change the pulley on the deck to match (if you are putting a deck on it).

There are several sellers on ebay with good prices on brand new starters.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by mgonitzke »

I never tried this, but I was looking at my Command once, and it looked like an M18 PTO clutch would bolt to it, but like I said...I didn't try it.

Depending on how far forward or backward you have the engine, you may have some interference with the air cleaner cover and the firewall. On my 582, it is very close and a bit of a challenge to get the air cleaner off, but it can still be done. You can probably use the 1872's wiring almost unmodified, but you will need to wire the fuel solenoid in the Command's carb. The driveshaft might or might not line up...I don't really know.

One other thing you may want to think about is that while the CH18 and M18 are both 18 hp, the Command has nowhere near the torque of a Magnum twin. You might find your super a bit underpowered after this. I used to have a 2206 (2000 series LT w/ 20 hp command and 48LT deck) and I could really lug that thing down in high grass. Maybe that was just the design of the deck though, because my CH18-powered 582 had no trouble with a 50C the one time I mowed with it. I think I'd be putting the Command in a gear drive instead, where you won't notice the lack of torque so much.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by DavidH »

I don't know about the 18 Command having less torque than the Magnum. I had a 1811 with a 44" deck and in certain area's in my yard the grass would really work the Magnum engine to where I had to slow down through it. I had a 1863 with the Command also with a 44" deck and it would walk right through the same area. I now have a 1863 with a 54" deck and it also walks right through the same area. There are also easy thing's you can do to a 18 Command to get more power out of them. The easiest is to take the throttle stop out and let the carb open up instead of only running a little over half throttle. Neither of the 1863's had this done to them so I compared the Magnum to the Command on equal ground.

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Farmallgray »

David,
Maybe your Magnum was getting tired. I worked with both models/engines when they were brand new and I tend to agree with Matt.
When the commands first came out I wasn't real impressed that when you engaged the pto at wide open throttle the engine would stall.
After the mower got loosened up they were ok but we never had that problem with the magnums. With the Magnums you could engage the pto
at half throttle even when the deck was fresh out of the box.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by DavidH »

Todd,
Nope, not tired, ran great with only a little over 500 hrs. on it. I've had quite a few Magnum engines in tractors that ran great like the 1811 to a 1810 that smoked. They all worked hard on that spot in the yard. I'll take a Command any day of the week over a Magnum. The Command uses a lot less fuel doing it too.

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

Todd

I like the commands. I look at it this way, all the abuse of the rental welders, dingos, sweepers and no regu;ar maintance, they are proven. I had a great time doing the welder and a boxer at the shop last winter. When I went to the update class the enginer told me that the reason the mags failed so much is the lack of zink in the oil and poor maintance. I dont know if he was feeding me a line, but lets see how the old iron holds up with the new diesel fuel, with low sulfur.

In what little I delt with the commands in mowers, if they stalled even at half thrortal something was in the carb when the pto was kicked in, restricting the fuel.

Matt

I wont have to worrie about the fuel celonid as its been snipped by the previous owner. Frank ran a bore scope down it and everything looked good just wasnt fireing on one cylinder over about 1100 rpm.

I think Ill order 2 head gaskets for it this week and pull the heads off and see what the cylinders look like. Im scared with water being in one of them. Ill sell some stuff on the auction site and buy a new starter for it if the cylinders look good. I was told this has new rings in it.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Jlaws »

Vince , I'm betting that engine isn't hurt .
I bought a Mag 20 once from a lawn mower repair shop that had been sitting outside on the ground for who knows how long .
They put a bag over the carb , but the exhaust manifolds were left open to the weather.
I got it during cold weather , because when I got it home and went to turn the engine by hand it wouldn't go a full revolution without stopping .
I pulled the head and there was a block of ice in one of the cylinders....LOL
I pulled out the ice , cleaned the cylinder and changed the oil.
Put new headgaskets on it and started it on the bench .
Ran great and its in my Mag Original now. Runs strong no smoke.
I'd pull the heads and check , change the oil and throw a set of head gaskets on it .
You might get lucky like I did.
I see a lot of cub cadets while going down the tracks , its a shame I can't pull over and ask about them .

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by mgonitzke »

I'll have to take that bolt out of my CH18 carb and see if that wakes it up. It does fine if the RPM is kept up, but if it gets lugged down too much it will fall flat on its face. I will definitely agree the fuel consumption is wonderful...probably about like a K301.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Farmallgray »

I do agree that the commands are a good line of engines otherwise they wouldn't have been around for 15 plus years. And the lower fuel consumtion along with their narrower profile is why they replaced the Magnums. I'm sure emissions were an issue as well.

But I won't be ready to give up my flathead twin anytime soon. Mine is a secondary mower now that I have a diesel though.

All the gassers seem weak compared to the oil burners.

I am rebuilding my old gas puller which now has a 16 single. I'm thinking about changing it to a command 20 if I can find one for a reasonable price. They sound pretty cool with a 2 into 1 header. They are very light in weight which is always good for a puller.
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

Jess Im starting to question this eng. Im going to work on the command tonight and tomorrow and put in this.
Attachments
Vince pulling the heads
Vince pulling the heads
This was the good side
This was the good side
all from the right side facing the tractor
all from the right side facing the tractor
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

And the left side
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pine needles in the bore
pine needles in the bore
water level
water level
100_9404.jpg
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Scott C. »

Aw crap.
We don't stop playing because we grow old....
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Racenitro »

Vinnie..
Forget what I said about using MMO.....
Way past that stage....

Definitely will need boring and new pistons....
Suspect that the crank and cam may be hurt also...

Crank may need a turning and new rods...

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vince_o
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

Vince and I wipped all the mud out of the cylinders and drained the oil. No water in the oil, nice smell of gas, no doubt from sitting. Smelt just like the junk I dumped out of the tank. The pistons are on std and I was told this had new rings in it. There is some ware on the pottom of the cylinder, didnt think to measure it, but every thing is smooth with no heavy groves worn in them. Ol BB's going to hook me up with a starter and I found that the termanl on the cylonid going to the starter was melted too, so Im guessing that it failed or they grouned it wrong, causing the wiring to melt at the starter. I will try to run it on the ground first before doing the command deal. We pulled the fenders off and everything looks good, no loose bolts in the rear.
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100_1058.jpg
100_1059.jpg
100_1060.jpg
100_1061.jpg
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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by Racenitro »

vinnie
I definitely get some MMO into the rings somehow....

Looks super....Do the valve seats look OK?

When you rotate the engine, are there any tight spots or does the assembley rotate smoothly through the entire 360 degrees?

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Re: 1872 where do I go from here?

Post by vince_o »

Frank

The seats look good. No hard spots after taking the mud and pine needles out. I cant figure on how they got in there. When I went and looked at it, I was buying it anyway, the eng wouldnt turn. I figure now that the rings were stuck. I orded my head gakets yeasterday so Ill have them for the weekend. Im going to run the eng on the floor fist for a while to see what it dose.

Mayor always says 2 glugs of MMO, Im going with 4 on this one! LOL
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