Kubota D600 ?'s

[Chevy13045]

This is my second inquiry on this thred thus far.

I have a cub 1572 with the Kubota D600 diesel in it. Here are my questions....

1. At what interval should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? My current machine shows 2072.0 hours on the meter, but I have no idea of it's previous service history.

2. How much of a rebuild should I do, complete, partial (i.e. rings, bearings, etc)?

3. Where can I find a service manual that has comprehensive diagrams and clearences so I can do the rebuild?

4. Who out there on the net sells parts for this motor at the best prices?

Thanks!

[red82s]

I've heard they will go much longer than that before a rebuild is required if it was taken care of properly. If it's not showing signs of needing a rebuild I wouldn't mess with it. Mine has about 800hrs on it. That's supposedly still pretty fresh. I would definitely get the parts from Kubota, don't go through cub cadet you'll get shafted.

[Amigatec]

Is it hard starting? Does it blow smoke when you start it? And what color is the smoke?

What other problems do you see with it.

[mgonitzke]

There is no 'interval'...you rebuild it when it needs it, not just because. If you aren't having problems, leave it be.

[Amigatec]

I have seen big Diesels go 10,000 hours between rebuilds.

[Chevy13045]

From the couple of hours I ran it before tearing the tractor apart I changed the oil and put a brand new purolator gold filter on it. It did not hard start, consume any oil, blow blue smoke or leak excessively from any area that I could see. The oil looked the normal dark color and did not appear to have any coolant in it. Additionally the diesel appeared to have plenty of power and only blew black smoke for a second when I took it from low idle to high RPM then ran completly clear. So long explainatin short, nothing out of the ordinary for a diesel, but my concern was that this is a 20 year old machine that I dont know the service history on and didnt want to get it all back together and have then have to pull it all back apart.

[Amigatec]

I would run it then. No need to tear it down and spend a bunch of money on it. I knew of one Series 60 Detroit Diesel that ran over a million miles with nothing than a replaced head gasket at around 900,000. With proper care it should wear the tractor out first.

[mjbkm1]

I would leave it be I have a Yanmar in other brand and it has 3500+ hours on it and it still tear the crud out of gas engines of the same hp and the only leak is a small drip out of the oil cap

[Chevy13045]

According to my local dealer this motor should be able to easily get to 6000 hours before needing any mojor service. So I guess ill break out the pressure washer some Kubota colored spray paint and have at it.

[BigMike]

Chris,my 882 looks like it has been rode hard and put away wet most of its life and was run by anyone that got near it that's why start and stop directions are written in black magic marker on the hood.I have always wondered how many hours it had.I figured very roughly it has about 5,000 hrs.I asked at a local diesel shop and he said the best way to gauge its health is to do a compression test......which I will do once I buy a compression tester that is rated for diesel pressure(at least 500 psi).Mine starts and runs good but does not seem to have the torque I thought it would.

[vince_o]

This is a loaded question, if your wallet is loaded.

Let first look at the starting, you say it starts fine.

Smoke, black is unburt fuel, blue oil, white water-head gasket

power, dose it have good power, yes


These old mechanical engs are far better than the new electric ones, just my opinion. I recently replaced the fuel lines on mine and started running an additive to replace the sulfer that they are removing for the new engs. I feel it has a lot more power.

Now looking back to the old cat engs I grew up on Ill tell you this. The cat 777 we ran in the mine ran 6 to 7 days a week a round the clock. We only shut them off at shift change or lunch. we would get about 3 years out of an eng. They were a v eng. Our D9's would go much longer, inline eng. I can remember pushing shot rock and looing out of the window and seeing the turbo cherry red we worked them so hard. On thing we were doing was changing oil seemed like every month, but around 250 hrs. Oil, fuel and air. These are cheap investment to keeping your eng running long.

At the Cat dealer Ive seen some 3106 engs run 750 to 1 million miles with just a few top end rebuilds, to one bottom end rebuild. Also have seen some engs at just over 100k need a compleat over haul out of the frame!

I dont belive theres a set time to change your pitons and rings. Big thing is to run an additive in your fuel. The lack of sulfer will kill it sure as the world is round. Be sure you give it time to warm up, electric engs only need about 3 min, old mechanical one espicaly the 3106 needs about 10 min before use.

Good luck and good trucing tonight, I mean cubbin LOL Some of you may know that song LOL

[Farmallgray]

IIRC Ken Updike wrote about a customer of his who used a 782D in a commercial landscaping business. I think he said they rebuilt it the first time at
8000 hours and even then it wasn't that bad.

[Amigatec]

White smoke on a Diesel, also means Low Compression, it will normally clean up as the motor warms up. Ever see a 400 Cummins start in the morning? When Cummins increases the HP they drop the compression, the 400 is around 13:1 as compared to 16:1, every 400 Cummins I have seen will blow white smoke when cold.

[Chevy13045]

So an update to the plight of the 1572. As I discussed before the dealer I contacted said 6K hours before the possibility of needing a rebuild (good news). He also said that the motor would more than outlast that tractor by about 2K hours, he seems to be very right about that too. However, despite his attempts to get me to scrap this one and buy a new one, I was very clear on the fact that Im putting this sucker back together and running it.

Ok onward, as I was doing another round of degreasing and inspection to the chasis I came across some issues that will require addressing prior to tackling the motor. It appears that one of the Al tabs on the rearend that the frame bracket bolts on to has been broke and someone made a 1/2 witted attempt to drill another hole to address this, I didnt have my camera with me so I didnt get any initial pictures, but intend to soon.

Back to the motor, as I was looking around the motor I noticed some leaking seals and gaskets that I will need to replace prior to reinstalling the motor into the machine and at that point I can do an inspection of the internals and determine wear. Thanks to everyone for the help thus far.

[vince_o]

Chris

When I bought mine, the owner of the mower shop started it for me and the first thing I did was check the rear. Then I just let it sit there for about 10 min running on half throtal and no brake on. It never moved, so no hydro creep. I rode it around the lot and up on the trailer, I was sold

You got any pics you can post of this unit? And from the sounds of it, you may want to drop in the cast iron rear while its out and you have the machine torn apart.

[mgonitzke]

I had a similar issue with the rear in my 1872...details are on the 1872 page of my website in my signature line.

[Chevy13045]

I agree with the cast iron switch, I had a spare wide fram laying around but got rid of it because it was taking up too much space, now im angry that I did.

[vince_o]

I dont know where in NY Troy is but Ill bet Timmy D could hook you up with one. Them things are a dime a dozen. Hes in Penn Yan Ny

[JMotuzick]

Chris Vince
Not to under cut Timmy but I'm a couple hours closer and have just what you need.....

[Chevy13045]

How exciting! Cast Iron Rear Exchange here I come!!!! Some one feel free to shoot me an e-mail. Penn Yan is a little far out, but Torrington is much closer. I'm right near Albany, NY.

Nonetheless, Thanks to everyone who has offered to help either with parts or by posting information.

[Racenitro]

Hauled off three with cast iron rears in them last week. Tried to sell the bunch but plenty of I'll be there...got tired and am hauling off the whole bunch...

[l palma]

Now Joe you know I am only a 1/2 hour further away.On the rebuild,
I myself would just leave it alone,If it runs good just leave it be.

[JMotuzick]

chris
shot me a PM we can talk off-line

[Chevy13045]

I recently read the article that was posted on upgrading glowplugs in these machines and it got me thinking, has anyone ever considered doing the glow plug upgrade and of course bypassing the dash indicator but installing an adjustable timer relay and a LED indicator light in its place? The idea is to have the indicator go on when you turn the switch to cycle the glow plugs this would trigger the relay to countdown from a set time (e.g. 10 - 15 seconds) and once the timer reaches 0 the light goes out, therefore indicating you are ready to start the motor. The relay and LED would use little to no voltage and making it ideal.

Another piece of information Harbor freight sells a line of 2 1/26" gauges that have a white face, electrical sending units and several LED backlight choices in the same gauge for under $20.00 per gauge. I picked up a voltmeter, watertemp and oil pressure gauge for my 1572. Once again I realize that they are made in China, but they are 20.00 as oposed to 60.00 or more for autometer or better.

[mgonitzke]

In my experience, an adjustable timer would not help...the amount of time needed for the glow plugs depends on ambient temperature, engine temperature, and perhaps a few other things. My 782D takes from 5-10 seconds in the summer, depending on conditions and if it's been run within the past few hours or not.

[Chevy13045]

The intent of the timer relay and the light is not intended to be used as a "be all end all" when cycling the glow plugs but as something that would still provide the user with some sort of an idication as to when the plugs may be ready. Also to remind the user that with these new aftermarket plugs that are way hotter, it would also be useful as a deadbrain reminder tool. I have those moments. With similar function as the current indicator but using countdown time instead of resistance.

It would be a similar to a relay in a late model vehicle that leave the lights, wipers or radio on after the ignition is shut off but before the door is opened. Anyone have any thoughts/ideas to expand this subject?

Additionally, with the full understanding that ambient environmental factors play a major role in the time needed to properly heat the cylinder and start the machine. What i think im driving at is that the function of the light is more of a reminder and wired such that the relay wouldn't cut voltage to the plugs after the light has gone off.

[Amigatec]

I would be more worried of burning up the glow plugs and having them break off and drop into the cylinder. I have seen this more than once. I have even seen them got caught under a valve and bend the valve. All my experience with glow plugs has not been good. When I was driving my Olds Diesel I had a push button on mine, but was always careful and counted to 10 and released the button, But you get somebody not used to that they can burn them out. I have seen glow times on Caterpiller of 60 seconds.

[vince_o]

Ive done the dozers for longer than that.

I can remember 2 of us staying on the job in the trailer with the whole yard running just so we didnt have to shut them off. Oh those were long nights!

I really miss striping coal.

[Amigatec]

I have stripped a little bit of coal, I used to work at a Limestore Quarry, we had a 6" layer of coal between the Limestone, so we stripped it when we had a buyer for it. For us it was overburden, so we had reason to remove it.

[Chevy13045]

So I conducted a compression test today on the D600 and the results were less than favorable......

CYL 1: 120 psi
CYL 2: 220 psi Kubota: High 450psi, Low 325psi
CYL 3: 180 psi

I wouldn't expect this for a motor with 2K hours on it, esp a diesel.

I did some quick searching on the net and found that if the engine has been over heated that could cause the rings to lose temper and become unable to seal. Has anyone heard of this? This sounds feasible because the cooling system was empty when I bought the tractor and the lower radiator hose had a constant drip (Thus the cause of why the rad was empty).

So I guess Ill have to pull the motor apart and check bearings and the head, etc. It blows my mind because when I ran this motor it didnt blow or use oil and it seemed to have good power, of course I dont have another diesel to compare too just my Kohler 12HP.

Has anyone priced a rebuild kit for these or can suggest a good resource(s) for rebuild kits or even better complete exchange? Or who knows maybe I can get lucky and just be able to throw some rings and bearings in it and motor away.