Blower vs Thrower

[Ike]

For years I have been using a QA 42A (42) Thrower, cleaning out a number of driveways in the neighborhood.

This year I have a (new to me) 451 Blower on my 1811. I put the required 6 in pto on the 1811 and set the blower up as stated in the manual. Maybe I was expecting too much but the only thing I like better about it is that it doesn’t vibrate near as much as the 42 did.

Haven’t had a lot of snow this year, but so far I’m not convinced the 451 does any better job than the 42 did. It bogs the engine down more than the 42, and plugs up more than the 42.

I seem to recall someone in the past talking about a Thrower with 4 spiral blades on it vs. the 2 on the 42. I think they said the 4 bladed ran a lot smoother than the 2 bladed 42 did. Does anyone know what Thrower this is?

If we’re lucky we won’t get much more snow. But then I would still have these questions next year??

Comments please?

Thanks,

Ike

[Dave C]

I just used the 2072 with the 450 on saturday night with about 6 to 8 inches and i could just about bury they speed lever forward and the engine didnt even know i was doing anything!
Does your 1811 run on both cylinders??????? them magnums are pretty much dogs on one cylinder!
personally ill NEVER go back to a single stage blower!

[Farmallgray]

If everything is working right that 2 stage should throw the snow across a 2 lane road into your neighbors driveway.

My QA42A has 4 paddles on the auger. I thought all of them did. Maybe you have an early one.

[Tom Scott]

Ike - I don't have any experience with a single stage to compare it to, but my experience with the 450 (same end result as the 451 with the right pto) is that the performance varies with the snow your are dealt. Based on reports from others with both types, my read is that sometimes the single stage (thrower) is better than the two-stage (blower) in the stuff that will pack and turn to ice.

My 450 seems to not throw any further than what I hear of single stages under the worst conditions (15' at the worst), but in anything near fluffy, Todd's description is right on. Over 30' of throw is usual in anything that does not pack easily. I have had the spirals pack under bad conditions, and I think all that weight helped destroy the front gearbox. I have since painted the entire inside with graphite paint, but have not had enough snow to use it since.

Make sure you check your rpm with a tachometer. I put Tiny-Tachs on mine (http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/index.php) and like many others, found that my Magnums were really running about 400 rpm too slow. Bringing the rpm up to where it should be makes a big difference with these blowers.

[Ike]

I just used the 2072 with the 450 on saturday night with about 6 to 8 inches and i could just about bury they speed lever forward and the engine didnt even know i was doing anything!
Does your 1811 run on both cylinders??????? them magnums are pretty much dogs on one cylinder!
personally ill NEVER go back to a single stage blower!

Dave, It runs fine, about 750 hours on it. It didn't kill it or anything, just made it work a little harder than I expected.

Thanks,

Ike

[Ike]

If everything is working right that 2 stage should throw the snow across a 2 lane road into your neighbors driveway.

My QA42A has 4 paddles on the auger. I thought all of them did. Maybe you have an early one.

Todd, Mine could be an older one. My son has one also, It the same as mine.

A street rod friend of mine has a Haben thrower I could probably get. Are they any better than the QA 42's?

Thanks,

Ike

[Ike]

Ike - I don't have any experience with a single stage to compare it to, but my experience with the 450 (same end result as the 451 with the right pto) is that the performance varies with the snow your are dealt. Based on reports from others with both types, my read is that sometimes the single stage (thrower) is better than the two-stage (blower) in the stuff that will pack and turn to ice.

My 450 seems to not throw any further than what I hear of single stages under the worst conditions (15' at the worst), but in anything near fluffy, Todd's description is right on. Over 30' of throw is usual in anything that does not pack easily. I have had the spirals pack under bad conditions, and I think all that weight helped destroy the front gearbox. I have since painted the entire inside with graphite paint, but have not had enough snow to use it since.

Make sure you check your rpm with a tachometer. I put Tiny-Tachs on mine (http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/index.php) and like many others, found that my Magnums were really running about 400 rpm too slow. Bringing the rpm up to where it should be makes a big difference with these blowers.

Tom, This is the first year I've had the 451 so have limited experience with it. The unit is in real nice shape and perhaps I expected more out of it than I should have. I put a Tiny Tach on the 1811 this afternoon and the RPM was 200 -300 low. It's now set a tad high (no Load) so we'll see how it does on the next snow. Next winter I plan to have the 451 on a 1862 with a just rebuilt M18.

It did blow the fluffy stuff fine. I be anxious to hear how the graphite paint worked out.

Thanks, Ike

[Tom Scott]

Ike - I think you will see the difference with the increased rpm. I will comment that I would not set it "a tad high". The specification is a maximum of 3600 with no load. It is supposed to run slightly slower than that under a load. With mine set at 3600 no load, heavy snow load would bring it down to about 3350 rpm before I was just overloading it. Once you drop below 3300 the power really drops off noticeably, so I think you will really notice the difference that 200-300 rpm gives you.

You can increase the sensitivity of the governor so it doesn't decrease as much in rpm under a load (up to the limit of the horsepower available), but you will know you have gone too far if it surges without a load. The governor is adjusted by the hole position for the rod, but I have always just kept mine in the factory location. I think that is all outlined in the Kohler Magnum service manual.

I will report on the graphite paint if it snows enough to test, but this time it is attached to the mighty 2182. I am really curious how that three cylinder Kubota engine handles a heavy load. All it has done for me so far is drive a loader around, which doesn't need much horsepower.

[Ike]

Ike - I think you will see the difference with the increased rpm. I will comment that I would not set it "a tad high". The specification is a maximum of 3600 with no load. It is supposed to run slightly slower than that under a load. With mine set at 3600 no load, heavy snow load would bring it down to about 3350 rpm before I was just overloading it. Once you drop below 3300 the power really drops off noticeably, so I think you will really notice the difference that 200-300 rpm gives you.

You can increase the sensitivity of the governor so it doesn't decrease as much in rpm under a load (up to the limit of the horsepower available), but you will know you have gone too far if it surges without a load. The governor is adjusted by the hole position for the rod, but I have always just kept mine in the factory location. I think that is all outlined in the Kohler Magnum service manual.

I will report on the graphite paint if it snows enough to test, but this time it is attached to the mighty 2182. I am really curious how that three cylinder Kubota engine handles a heavy load. All it has done for me so far is drive a loader around, which doesn't need much horsepower.

Tom,

Thanks for the info. I'll keep you posted.
Actually if we are lucky we won't get enough snow to get a good test.

Take Care,

Ike

[Tom Scott]

Hmmm... Me'um think Ike no-like snow.

I won't mind one hit that is at least a foot. I won't feel like pulling off the loader for the blower was for nothing. Anything under 6" just gets attacked by the 1872 and the Haban blade. I will say I don't want anything deep that packs the blower; that makes for an aggravating day.

[SWilliams]

The heavy wet crap that we got for our first snow really worked the blower. The engine didn't even know the blower was there but the blower was really working. Because it was so wet and heavy it doesn't blow worth a crap. You're not really blowing snow as much as you're pumping water....

Mine was tossing the crap about 15 feet or so. The neighbor runs a JD with a single stage and it was tossing about 10 feet.

Make sure you have the correct gearbox and that you're tractor is running up to speed.

Also make sure that the heat deflector is in place. Without it the heat from the engine will cause the chute and blower top to get warm and cause the snow to stick, especially if the outside temperature isn't in the teens or lower. That will cause them to clog up quick, If you still have the hand guard installed they also don't help that problem.

[Tom Scott]

Steve - That's why I was real happy that this last snow was only three inches for me; blade all the way.

Has anyone compared the older steel discharge chute (circular) performance to the newer plastic (rectangular)? I have a 451 that I could "borrow" the plastic chute from if it would work better. I think the rectangular discharge shape may be preferred, all the more modern stuff uses that. Not that the discharge chute is my biggest problem; packing the spirals is the worst. I am hoping the graphite paint and increased rpm helps with that.

My Ariens 1028 walk-behind has that same rectangular shape (but is steel), and that thing will throw 50' in the right conditions. Also, in all the years I used the Ariens before going Cub, it has never packed the spirals. Frankly, it does better than the 450 in most conditions, but walking long steep hills with that thing is torture.

[Ike]

Hi all,

Getting some attention on this subject, that's a good thing.

I do have the heat shield in place, also a deflector on the grill and flex pipe on the exhaust point out to the right side vs straight ahead.

I did remove the hand guard on the 451.

It caused a real problem on the QA42, damp snow hitting the cold fingers on the guard = slow build up then plugging.
So it hasn't been on the 42 for many years.

451 on 1811

Once I decide to quit cleaning half the driveways in the neighborhood I'll probably just use the walk behind.

Take Care,

Ike

[Tom Scott]

Bryan - The cooking spray just doesn't stay very long. Like Ike, I have more than just mine to do. I am in a rural area and just mine and my neighbors drive has me doing about 1000 foot of snow blowing. It just isn't practical to reapply the spray once it gets sloppy. I have some hope for the graphite paint.

Ike - Give that thing another chance with the increased rpm and probably better snow the next time. It looks like it is doing good in the picture you posted. Although it is cool to shoot the snow real far, all you really need most of the time is to get it a few feet off the driveway. Parking pads can be challenging under low-throw conditions due to the increased distance you need to move the snow. Sometimes you just have to blow some of the same snow twice.

[Klapatta]

I can't really say much bad about the single stage ones except that they don't like rock driveways very much.
Into and over the power wires is good enough for me
This one is the 2 paddle type and honestly until a couple months ago I thought that's what they all were

Pics taken last Winter when it snowed-

[lonnyb]

My 2 stage blower tosses snow a fair distance , not sure of the model number but it on a 3235 with a 25hp under the hood.