2182-2: "An Incredible Cinderella Story..."

[ReicheP]

One thing that bugs me on these is the three unnecessary "drain back" holes in the adapter housing where the hydro bolts up. Not likely to be a problem, but it does significantly reduce the sealing area and make a leak more likely. They are already drilled the correct size for a 1/4" pipe plug, so...

Why are these drain holes "unnecessary" and if so why are they there?

[mpfeiffer]

I was discussing the set up on these rear ends with a friend of mine who worked at our local CC dealer for quite some time before going off and starting his own shop. He said most of these rear ends were set up too tight from the factory. This leads me to believe two things, either the quality control was not what it should have been, or it just is not an exact science in this type of application. I guess 20-30 years later most are still working.

Nice work on this project Tom. It will be better than new when you are finished!!

Are you planning to add a 3pt and rear PTO to this tractor? I strongly believe that the 3pt hitch adds a lot of stiffness to the rear ends in these tractors and helps prevent these cracking issues - not to mention its handy.

[Tom Scott]

Robert - Thank you for the compliments, but I do have to question "not even a cub fan"? You have almost 60 posts on a Cub Cadet specific forum. I think it's time to let yourself love a little. This seems very similar to "I read Playboy for the articles" or "I smoked, but I didn't inhale". (Looks like you're a friend of Vince's, so I figured that you couldn't be too thin skinned!) I mean no harm, just having fun, thanks for playing along! Vince, don't let him hurt me now...

Vinny - Thanks man, I like having you stop by.

Paul - I think when the casting was designed the hydro's had drainback holes there that matched up, but Cub/Sundstrand decided that the hydro could just drainback through the bearing and shaft hole. So, later hydro's like this one don't have any holes that line up with the ones that I plugged. Cub was just too lazy to stop putting the holes in the castings. When you have such a wide sealing area interrupted with such large holes, I think you are begging for a leak with any machining inaccuracies.

Matt - If most are set up too tight, they made up for it with this one! This is where they put all the extra shims they had!

I would love to have a factory 3-pt on all of them, but they still bring pretty big money. I will have to see what is out there. I have 3-pt & rear pto on 2182-1, and it is perfect to have on the loader tractor. So, I really don't need another one, but it would still be nice to have.

The commonly available aftermarket 3-pt (Xtreme Motorworks) doesn't tie into rear like the factory one does, so that wouldn't really help the stiffness. If it did, that might have pushed me to buy one of those. Xtreme does have the brackets to tie the lower axle carrier bolts into the forward frame that were developed by Sam McCleary, and they look very good, but the cost is a bit high for me. I am mulling over perhaps a simper version of something I can do on my own. I am going to see what I can dummy up as I put it back together.

[dag1450]

The line starts behind me everyone ! because as soon as Tom is done with his rear i'm gonna talk him into rebuilding mine You do mail order ? Great job and did i say i like all the pics !

[Tom Scott]

Careful Dave, or you might be doing some painting for me! I would much rather do mechanical work than painting!

[rweaver]

glad I sell parts and not fix or paint
Tom you are doing a bang up job on the rear

[Tom Scott]

Thanks Ray. The brown & gold parts truck showed up today, so I should be able to get going again. It is hard starting and stopping on a job like this, but I had to wait for my new pinion retainer clip to arrive. Then, when I check my pattern, I might have to stop again and wait for carrier shims if I don't have the right combination. I probably should have just ordered some from Midwest Super Cub, but too late now, might as well see what I got. Winter is closing in and I need to get this thing back together.

[dag1450]

I thought u already set your carrier load with the shims ... so for your pattern wouldnt u just b moving them from side to side ? just wondering.

[dag1450]

I got it now. If its any excuse we just had 5 extra boys on top of my three boys over to build ginger bread houses . U may not have the right thickness in your shim pack make-up that u want to move it.

[Tom Scott]

Wow, throw a little Thanksgiving in, run out of parts, deal with snow, and suddenly three weeks go by... Got some more done, not enough, but some.

We left off at pinion retaining clip thickness and installation. I want to revisit that thought, because I think the manual can leave you confused.

As mentioned, with the straight cut gears, we are looking for bearing preload on the pinion gear bearings. The pinion clip groove is cut very wide in the axial direction of the pinion shaft. When the pinion gear is supported from underneath by a 4"x4" piece of wood so that the case is off the workbench, a portion of the wide groove will be above the bearing's inner race. Measuring this width groove provides the theoretical "zero clearance" clip thickness. Whatever this thickness is, you go to the next thicker clip to provide bearing preload.

At this point your brain is wondering how a clip that is thicker than the groove will fit, but don't worry, it will, and we will come back to that.

Measuring is the part that needs some thinking through. The manual says determine which clip just fits and go one thicker. That assumes you have a pile of clips to try in front of you and you don't mind wrecking them (they are generally only good for one use, we can revisit that too if needed).

Here is what I found to be the easiest, and I didn't get a pic as I was doing every step, so I have to use a few too many words. The best I can do is a pic of the finished product with a piece of keystock laying nearby:

Pinion clip installed and keystock reference.JPG (1.66 MiB) Viewed 11624 times

So, imagine, before the clip was installed, I supported the pinion with the wood as described above. I found that the piece of keystock laying on the case would fit easily in the groove. I measured the 1/8" keystock and found it to really measure 0.123". I slid the keystock into the groove and remove the 4x4, so now the pinion gear was hanging, supported only by the edge of the keystock slid into the groove.

Then I set up my dial indicator as shown:

Checking pinion bearing clearance.JPG (1.79 MiB) Viewed 11624 times

Then, reaching in through the side of the case, I pushed up on the pinion gear and read the before and after of the dial indicator. The difference of the before and after raising and lowering the pinion gear was 0.003". Add the 0.003" to the 0.123" keystock, and we know that the available "zero clearance" groove width is 0.126". The next thicker clip available is 0.131" which will provide 0.005" bearing preload.

10 lbs crap in a 9 lb bag... It really does work with roller bearings. Using appropriate snap ring pliers the clip is placed over the pinion shaft and lowered towards the groove. It won't fit in the groove because it is too thick (by 0.005"), so leave it there. Place the smallest socket that will fit over the pinion, give it a moderate smack with a 2 lb no-bounce hammer (with the pinion supported by the wood again), and the clip snaps into place. The wedge shape of the inner race of the bearings allow them to easily drive the rollers outward enough to provide the light press fit without any excessive hammering.

The pinion turned smoothly with gentle resistance as indicated by the manual at this setting.

[Tom Scott]

The next step is installing the carrier and ring gear assembly and getting the backlash correct. I made the mistake of hoping that my 0.007" shims would give me enough side to side adjustment to obtain the correct backlash. Since hoping in this case is pretty much like assuming, I got burned...

From my earlier spring scale check, I knew that I needed a total of 0.030" shim thickness (both sides combined) to provide the appropriate carrier bearing preload. I set up for checking the backlash. The first thing I discovered is that the pinion must be held steady to get an accurate reading. With the approximate 10 lb resistance of the carrier to turning, by the time you put enough force on it to turn it, you end up turning the pinion and can't accurately measure the backlash.

To hold the pinion, I used a pry bar wedged against the reduction gear. I pushed pry bar down through the hydro shaft hole to force the reduction gear back to hold the pinion steady. A good choice because it was clean, too big to fall into the hole, and it worked.

Pry bar wedged to hold pinion gear still.JPG (1.74 MiB) Viewed 11578 times

Picture of pry bar used. Any pry bar with a curve to it (that you clean first) should work. It just needs to wedge in such a way that the pinion will not move when you are moving the ring gear back and forth checking the backlash.

Pry bar for wedging reduction gear.JPG (2.5 MiB) Viewed 11578 times

And here is my backlash checking:

Checking backlash.JPG (1.71 MiB) Viewed 11626 times

The goal is to have the stem of the dial indicator perfectly tangential to the tooth you are checking, which is not possible with this setup. There are better dial indicator setups for this job, and the one that is shown in the Cub manual would be better. By removing the pointed tip off the stem of the indicator, It gave me a flat surface to just catch with the tooth. Even so, I was left with about a 25* to 30* rise from tangent.

So, when I measured 0.002" backlash, some quick trigonometry gives the real number: 0.002"/cosine 30* = 0.0023". The significance of this is that even if my deviation from tangent is as much as 30*, the error is less than half a thousandth at that small measurement. For more backlash, the error increases. For example, if I had measure 0.007" backlash, 0.007"/cos 30* = 0.0081", adding over a thousandth for the angle error. Just something to pay attention too when you can't position a dial indicator square.

At any rate, when I moved my 0.007" shim to the ring gear side, I measured about 0.009" backlash which would really be over 0.010" with the angle error. With the 0.007" shim on the other side I measured the 0.002" backlash, not enough. The spec is 0.003" to 0.008". I ordered some 0.003" shims from Midwest Super Cub today, so more waiting.

[Tom Scott]

One more ring and pinion setup note...

Many automotive references recommend setting the backlash with less carrier preload to make it easier take things apart and move shims. For many automotive rears, the will be adjusting the pinion depth to accomplish this rather than moving the ring gear from side to side. It accomplishes the same thing in a different way.

The word of caution here is that you can't accurately determine backlash without having the proper preload carrier shims in with these Cub rears. If you just add a shim to the non ring gear side temporarily to remove some pressure so it can turn easier you might be thinking that you should get the same backlash because you haven't disturbed the ring gear side reference point. This doesn't work because when you remove the pressure from the non gear side, the gear side relaxes and uses up the backlash clearance and you will get a false reading. I tried it just for grins, and even 0.010" backlash disappears if you take even some of the pressure off the carrier bearings. Once you get your carrier preload set, you must stay with that total shim thickness for the rest of the setup.

[dag1450]

Tom, .......... Long pause ........... The only thing i understood was the part about the "redneck" and the "wrecking bar". Maybe u should take a break from the math and play a game of twister with Bryan and me over at Mikes family room.

[Tom Scott]

Only if it is mandatory "beer in hand" rules!

[Tom Scott]

Ok, if you want redneck, I'll give you redneck! Waiting on carrier shims, so do something else that needs doing.

Several years ago I painted the 1872 wheels indoors during the winter and I stunk up the whole house. I said I would never paint indoors again. I lied.

The tractor is apart now, and the seat support had quite a bit of rust from the washdowns this thing must have received on a regular basis. I just can't put this back together with this needing paint. So, back to the basement. Here is my "paint booth", not quite as good as Dave's... (I designed it to look just like a cardboard box .)

Paint Booth.JPG (1.91 MiB) Viewed 11617 times

Now I needed an exhaust system. With the oil furnace not running (wood heat most of the time) I stuck a small hair dryer in through the barometric damper and kept it open as well. The heat from the hair dryer made the draft pretty good:

Exhaust System for Painting.JPG (2.3 MiB) Viewed 11617 times

Here are my two favorite spray guns:

Spray Guns.JPG (1.89 MiB) Viewed 11617 times

Painted seat support; not Barrett Jackson quality, but good enough to keep the rust off a part you can hardly see:

Painted Seat Support.JPG (1.83 MiB) Viewed 11617 times

How's that for a no math redneck evening? (It was a little like twister painting in that little box!) The draft from the oil furnace flue was just enough to keep the stink in the basement.

[dag1450]

Al yea ! Now wer talken !................wait, no cfm calculations or lengh x width x hight , surly u did a flow chart of the flu gases Looks good. My nefew (and model train nut) and i built something like that only we added a bath fan i had laying around with 4 inch hose and a light bulb. We nic named it "sandy" as we made it the day of the hurricane. He has since added a filter in the back as he was getting air bounce back from his air brush. Dave

[Tom Scott]

I went back and edited my post with the carrier bearing preload. I wanted to double check my preload once I was all done and so this time I made a hook and used rope around the carrier to check the preload. This really is a better method. I avoided the rope at first because I am lazy, but once I decided to make an "S" hook to attach the rope to it was very easy. Several posts back if interested...

I also edited my post with the wedge holding the reduction gear for checking backlash because that was a bad example. I used a pry bar with a lighter handle that worked much better and have shown that in the pictures of the original post.

So back to present time... I got my 0.003" shims in and that made everything perfect. I ended up with about 0.005" backlash and the pattern from the marking compound looked fine.

Ring gear pattern.JPG (1.96 MiB) Viewed 11601 times

Pinion gear pattern.JPG (824.2 KiB) Viewed 11601 times

The original wear that I was concerned about on the ring gear was out towards the "heel" of the tooth (towards the outer diameter). Now that the backlash is correct the pattern has been driven down to where it should be towards the "toe" of the tooth (towards the inner diameter of the teeth).

So, back on track, time to keep going.

[Tom Scott]

Next up was installing the axle carriers. I installed new axle seals in the ends the other night, but I am going to skip discussing that, pretty basic stuff, all in the manual.

Just me, but I don't like dry gaskets for these types of sealing situations. I also don't like to use silicone on everything. Silicone is great where it is appropriate, but I think the traditional sealants are better for close fitting parts that are gasketed.

For the axle carrier gaskets I like good old Permatex #2, presumably the second product they ever made. #2 is very easy to work with, will remain pliable until the end of time, and can only be compared to the most tenacious bubble gum you have ever had stuck to your shoe. I spread it with my finger on both metal surfaces, not the gasket, with the goal of making it as thin as possible. Note that the gaskets have two smaller holes that are used to grip the bolts so your gasket doesn't move as you install it.

Axle carrier sealing, #2 Permatex.JPG (2 MiB) Viewed 11603 times

For the bolts, I go a different route than Cub suggests. First, you have to remember that a thread is just a spiral groove. All these bolts penetrate into the rear which is full of oil. The oil is more than happy to wind its way up the spiral groove and leak.

Cub specifies "patch bolts" which are just a factory version of using Loctite. Using Loctite blue on a clean bolt will give you a replication of the factory build, but I am leary of that. With the tendency of these bolts to loosen you don't have anything if the Loctite bond gets broken.

I prefer to coat the bolts with Permatex #3, which is just a more liquid version of #2. #3 has traditionally been used in automotive applications where bolts penetrated water jackets or oiled areas and you needed to prevent the liquid from working its way up the threads. I know from experience that it dries to the previously mentioned super bubble gum consistency, and I think that is good for this application.

Unlike Loctite blue, #3 will retain its grip on the threads even if you loosen the bolt and retorque it. Also, unlike Loctite which provides a harder and more brittle bond, I believe that #3's tough, pliable properties make it ideal for the cyclic loading these bolts see in this application. If a bolt does need retorquing, I know that #3 will still be doing its job even if I disrupted the seal.

#3 is a brush in cap deal, and it is impossible to use without applying some to the outside of the container. Mine, in all its glory:

Permatex #3.JPG (2.23 MiB) Viewed 11603 times

The other advantage to Permatex #2 & 3, is that I have found that their shelf life is incredible, unlike silicone which drys up in the tube very quickly.

[Tom Scott]

Last for today was the expansion plug covering the pinion.

I went old school on sealing this as well. Cub doesn't mention using a sealant, but these types of plugs can leak if not sealed. Just to round out our old school Permatex day, I used Permatex #1 on the plug.

Permatex #1 is a more rigid drying version than #2, and is primarily used for expansion plug sealing, both this disc type and the cup type.

Expansion plug sealing, #1 Permatex.JPG (2.06 MiB) Viewed 11603 times

The #1 is applied sparingly to the hole so you don't squeeze any into the bearing and sparingly to the edge of the plug as well. Then the disc type plug is installed convex face out, then give a real good smack with a steel punch in the center. Depressing the raised center forces the edges out and provides the press fit.

Expansion plug installed.JPG (1.99 MiB) Viewed 11603 times

After installation I smooth out the pressed out sealant and added some to fill the depression around the perimeter. This is where it gets messy and looks a bit unkempt, but will soon be installed out of sight. Better to have a little sealant mess than a leak.

[Tom Scott]

Although the hydro gasket is self adhesive on one side, I spread a very thin bed of Permatex #2 to dress the area and fill the slight uneven area where I plugged the drainback holes. I placed the gasket with the unnecessary holes up away from the plugs.

Hydro gasket.JPG (1.76 MiB) Viewed 11588 times

After placing the gasket I dressed the top of the gasket with another thin layer and filled the offensive gasket holes with the sealant.

I did have a hiccup installing the hydro. I decided it would be easier to align and less chance of marring the gasket by placing the hydro straight down onto the rear. A little voice in the back of my head warned that fluid could come out and hit the seal area, but the other, less smart voice in my head said that I had handled the hydro enough during cleaning that it should be drained pretty good. Wrong. As I tipped the hydro into position, Hy-Tran started running out of the suction fitting. The fluid ran straight down toward my nice neat gasket dressed with #2 Permatex.

I decided to push on and not pull the tranny back off. To compound the error, I used the anaerobic prep spray in three of the hydro mounting holes and pre-applied Loctite blue in the holes. This is the first time I have used the prep spray with Loctite and it makes the threadlocker start setting up immediately, so it took me longer to thread the bolts to tighten up the seal and keep the oil off my gasket. (Note, blind holes should always have a small amount of threadlocker placed in the hole in addition to on the male threads. As the bolt is tightened the air trapped in the hole gets pushed up through the threads and pushes much of the threadlocker off the threads. By placing some in the hole you are insuring that you really get some on the threads deep in the hole.)

Had I been doing this for anyone else, my uncertainty would have made me pull it back apart, clean up the gasket area and start over. Since it is for me and only I will have to suffer any repercussions, I decided that even if oil contaminated the entire gasket area that it wasn't any worse than a factory build with just a bare gasket.

I used Perm #3 on the fourth hydro bolt because that is one of the bolts that needs to be loosened to adjust the hydro linkage so I didn't want a hard setting threadlocker on that one.

Installed the rear cover with 3/4" long bolts with a flat washer in addition to the split lock to help spread the load over more of the cover. In addition to my cleaning with a tap earlier, I checked each hole for adequate thread depth for the slightly longer bolts. Again, dressed the gasket with Perm #2 and #3 on all the bolts. Not that the bolts need sealing, just some more resistance to loosening.

Waiting for installation:

Tranny & rear ready for install.JPG (2.09 MiB) Viewed 11588 times

[dag1450]

Looks good ! You will b driving her before 2014 ?

[Tom Scott]

Hey, Merry Christmas!

No, won't be driving by then. I want to take care of some things as I go. I will be happy just to get wheels under it again! Hopefully soon after.

2182-1 hasn't moved since I have torn into this. I have the fuel tank balanced in the loader half full of gas, and it is blocked in by -2. I will have to decide very soon if -1 or -2 is getting the blower.

[dag1450]

Tom im running out of things to read around here so i hope u r working hard

[Tom Scott]

Wow, my bud is calling me out! I didn't really want to post this until it is done, but I guess I will since Dave is taunting me.

My main "while I am there job" is to fabricate tranny braces. For you old hot-rodders, think ladder bars like on a Chevelle. The idea is to provide more bracing in a way that you have created a triangle. Triangle good, makes things strong. But, unlike with a car suspension, we are trying to restrain all movement, not just axle torque.

In a perfect world of zero clearance holes, a triangle only needs pins with no clamping force and it will not move unless something breaks.

In the real world with clearanced holes, multiple bolts where possible and clamping force helps keep everything stiff.

Hold your judgement until it is done, I still have some work to finish this to my satisfaction.

Front tranny brace.JPG (2.06 MiB) Viewed 11550 times

As I am lazy, I saved some fab time by butchering an old Lakewood driveshaft safety loop for the vertical brackets (with the stupid chrome) attached to the frame. It has been laying around in a box for over 25 years, so I might as well use it for something. It was just too tempting to not use it as the holes were the exact correct spacing to use the forward tranny mounts of the frame. As with the holes Cub drilled in the frame for 3/8" (0.375") bolts, Lakewood drilled holes of about 0.410" which (just like the holes in the tractor frame) will allow movement if you don't have adequate clamping force. The plain steel diagonal brace that I made was drilled with a 3/8" drill to minimize the clearance to the bolts, especially down at the axle carrier where I only picked up one bolt. Although I am only picking up one bolt on the axle carrier, remember that Cub only picked up two bolts to support the whole back half, so I think one for a brace is sufficient.

I may add a mid brace to change the force direction on the forward tranny mount. In addition to stiffening, a mid brace would become a fulcrum and will provide an opposing reaction force to the front tranny mount. Dave picks on me when I start the engineering talk, so I will hold back for now...

Not real obvious in this pic, but I clearanced the bottom of the brace and vertical bracket to make sure I had a straight shot with a socket to properly torque the front mount bolts in the adapter housing.

There are two different very nice brace options on the Xtreme Motorworks site, one of which was designed by Sam McCleary. The one Sam designed appears to have incorporated the Haban mount brackets which is a nice touch. My only issue with these was the cost. What I am building will probably cost less than $20 even if you overpay for the steel at the hardware store.

[dag1450]

Nice,........I knew it !.... I knew u were up to something big and fancey with engineering involved. lol Why did u make the drop down bracket and not go right to the frame with the "ladder" bar ?
What i cant make out in your picture is how the tractor is levitating on ONE bottle jack. Did u stage that picture just so i feel at home.

[9803412]

Tom
You have done an excellent job on this rebuild. The write-up should be very helpful to anyone that has not yet had the enjoyable experience of replacing the adapter housing.
Thanks for the plug on the brace that I designed. While I think what you are doing will help to reduce the likelihood of breaking the front mount on the adapter housing I doubt that it will be as effective as the kit being sold by Xtreme. My design picks up the 4 axle tube bolts on each side, it’s longer and on the SGT brace it includes the Haban mount. Is it over kill, probably. It dramatically increases the stiffness of the frame, no more feeling the foot pads twist under your feet. As far as the price is concerned, to me it’s cheap insurance against breaking the adapter housing. I have them on all four of my aluminum rear-end Cubs. One of my proto types is on a Cub with a broken adapter that has not been replaced. I don’t want to hog Tom’s thread so if any of you guys want more info shoot me an e-mail.

Sam

[Tom Scott]

Sam - I like your design very much, but engineering is all about compromise. I would have liked to pick up more than one axle carrier bolt, but I think as a brace it will be more than sufficient. I am a big fan of overkill, but I view the Cub built design as "almost strong enough" so I think any additional bracing will make a big difference. I am not concerned about the length, mine is plenty long to provide enough leverage to stiffen the rear. In addition, I have used 1/4" steel for everything, its not going to flex, especially with the mid-brace that I just added.

So, here is the finished product, ready for disassembly and paint:

Bottom brace left, final fit.JPG (2.11 MiB) Viewed 11532 times

Bottom brace right, final fit.JPG (1.87 MiB) Viewed 11532 times

The vertical brackets are needed because the actual brace wants to fall pretty much in line with the outside edge of the tractor's frame. For perfect alignment I needed two flat washers between the axle carrier and the brace, but that works out just fine.

I am really happy with adding the mid-brace as it will make the assembly very stiff (as we now have multiple triangles) and will provide a countering load force to the front mounting point.

Any job like this needs a definition of success. My definition is that if none of the bolts show any sign of loosening when I go to retorque them in the future and the aluminum never again breaks, that is success. Only time will tell if I have been successful.

[Tom Scott]

Part of my design criteria was to not drill any additional holes in the tractor frame if it could be helped and to build something that was effective using all straight lengths of readily available structural steel. In other words, something that any competent craftsman could make at home without too much cutting and fab effort, no offset bends, etc.

Some more pics before it gets disassembled an sent to the "paint booth":

L&R bottom tranny braces, outside view.JPG (1.84 MiB) Viewed 11530 times

L&R bottom tranny braces, inside view.JPG (2.31 MiB) Viewed 11530 times

The inside view shows the piece of wood veneer that I used for the initial mock-up to get the hole spacing correct. That is kind of how I ended up using the Lakewood steel. I was just initially using the Lakewood safety loop steel uncut during my mock-up just so I didn't have to cut more wood. They fit so well I just decided to cut them and use them for the final product.

Also, when fabbing even simple parts, it can be useful to mark them. It is easy to get them jumbled up when disassembled. In this case the right side was fabbed first and the second was made from that, I still like to keep the parts together as they were for the final fit-up. I used a convention of a single punch mark at the topmost inside of each part for the right side. The left side has two punch marks. Now there will be less confusion after painting and it will all go back together as intended.

[Tom Scott]

Often we do work like this and there is some detail that just works out and makes you smile a little.

For me it was when I found that I had blocked a straight shot for a socket on the rear adapter housing mounting bolt. After initially being peeved at this, I ground a relief in the bottom side. I "match ground" the parts while assembled:

Bottom tranny braces, bottom view.JPG (1.73 MiB) Viewed 11531 times

So now the dreariness of paint prep and painting. I would send them to Dave to paint, but I am afraid they would get "lost in transit", then I would see something that looked just like them on his 2072!

[9803412]

"The vertical brackets are needed because the actual brace wants to fall pretty much in line with the outside edge of the tractor's frame. For perfect alignment I needed two flat washers between the axle carrier and the brace, but that works out just fine."

Yep that's why I used 3/8" plate for the torque arm, it is flush with the frame. Good luck with it.