1572 rear end

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wtgvr4me03
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1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

My 1572 was vibrating excessively when I just rebuilt the drive shaft a little over a year ago. After looking everything over I found the front mount for the transmission broken. I have already ordered the brace kit from Extreme. However I wanted to have the front mount welded back on also. Has anyone had and success welding this? I had an experienced welder come out to the house as I have it all torn down. He could not get the weld to flow. He was using a 4043 rod and asked me to ask around. I have heard the brace kit will be stronger than stock anyways, I just wanted to have it welded also. The housing is just cast aluminum correct? Thanks for the input guys!
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wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

This is a terrible sight with mowing season just starting!
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Dave C
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by Dave C »

Im definitly not an expert on welding by any means... but having brazed a little aluminum id say it not where near clean enough.... this type of welding isnt like welding steel..... a stick welder will blow through rust paint etc. This type of welding must be spotless.

Maybe some JB weld would do the job?

Personally id dump the aluminum trans and switch to a cast iron one. but its a little more difficult cause its a Super.
Trying to save cubs... one at a time.......

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

That picture was before the area was cleaned and beveled etc. Just curious if anyone was welded one up successfully. I would love to switch over the the cast iron setup. I don't really have the time at this point though.

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dag1450
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by dag1450 »

Dave...I think w the stress on this area...anything other than a replacement front adapter is not a good idea. I don't want to say a waste of time but it would b a real shame to spend all that time cleaning grinding clamping.....and just watch it crack again. Tom S and others have done this replacment w perfect success.
Yes as Dave C indicated a cast iron rear is a nice upgrade.... But w the diesel....its almost impossible without all kinds of modifications to the fuel tank. So stick w the aluminum rear, fix the adapter and add the braces. Good luck.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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Dave C
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by Dave C »

Dag1450
Why is it almost impossible? I have a Cast Iron rear in my 882 which i did with no problem. and I am currently working on Building a 1772 with a Cast iron rear out of a 982. The only thing i am not sure is how the rear pto will interfere with the tank. Is there something else i am unaware of?
Trying to save cubs... one at a time.......

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

I was under the thought that I could just leave the front mount broken off. That the new braces would make up for it? I didn't want to get into sourcing another housing and swapping them out, thoughts? Thanks

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dag1450
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by dag1450 »

Dave C......I dont know first hand, i was speaking from memories about a (loose friend) back in like 2012. He tried this same thing on same 1572. He got the rear internals all switched over to the cast iron rear....then found out the fuel tank shut off did not clear by like an inch or something? U might know more about this than me. I just wanted to give a warning as to a possible fuel tank issue. He did get it figured out by moving the fuel pick up and plugging the old holes. I cant think of a specific super difference over your 882.....let us know how your fuel tank shut off is and the clearance.

Dave S.....that looks like one nice 1572 u have there!
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

dag1450,

Thank you! I can remember when my grandfather bought the 1572 brand new. I know first hand this tractor has bad all filters and fluids changed every year and has never spent the night outside! I am just over 700 hours at this point and want to fix it right. Just hoping I can put the extreme brackets on and call it good. My father was the lucky one lol, he used it for years and only changed fluids. I got it and immediately had to rebuild the drive shaft, change out all the belts, upgraded the starter etc. My dad can not believe how easy she fires up with the new gear driven starter upgrade.

9803412
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by 9803412 »

Dave

I'm the guy that designed the brace that Xtreme sell's. Just bolt it on and go. No need to bother worrying about the crack in the front adapter. If you want to get it welded find someone that can TIG weld it but the front mount is not even needed with the brace. Holler if I can help or if you have any questions.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

Awesome!! Thank you for the reply and design! I did in fact have a "TIG" welder come over and attempt it. He was very upset, an older gentlemen who has been welding for a living for 50 years. The weld did not take. He wanted to attempt it again, but after your response I will just await the braces arrival and put her together.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

One thing I did find during my issues. I always cut grass at full throttle. Well once all the vibrations started I was cutting just a little over idle to keep them at bay. I found that the diesel is able to cut at much lower RPM than a gas engine and still do a great job. This will save me fuel in the future once it is fixed.

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BigMike
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by BigMike »

Welding cast aluminum is always a crap shoot. The main reason is zinc. Different cast has different amounts of zinc. When you hit it with an arc it vaporizes. Sometime you can add filler, then burr out the contamination, add more filler and so on until it will weld.
I have done this on a Kohler carb body just to see if I could, I did but it is a lot of work.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

BigMike,

Would you recommend something other than the 4043 filler? Thanks


Dave

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Tom Scott
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by Tom Scott »

I am not a welding expert, but have had some exposure and experience at it over the years. I would be surprised if a good weld shop couldn't figure out how to Tig that properly. It sounds like your welder was surely experienced, but just might have a knowledge gap on aluminum. Hopefully our BigMike sees this and can weigh in... (On edit, I didn't see BigMike sneak in! Good to see you Mike!)

It is my opinion that the adapter housing should be corrected. I am not comfortable just relying on the braces. I surely respect Sam's work in developing the braces, I am just not comfortable relying on them alone. When I found my adapter housing broken, I sourced another one rather cheaply and replaced it. The "big scare" in this job is setting up the ring and pinion again with the new housing. It really isn't a bad job. It is a bit of work, but you are halfway there with the rear out of the tractor. I pretty much outlined the whole process in the "Cinderella thread" which can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5282&start=150 As part of the job I built my own braces, as others have done as well.

My friend Keith (username "keiths" on this forum) had the same issue, so I set his rear up with him and he built braces similar to mine. He has thread on it as well, just not as detailed.

Although JB Weld is wonderful stuff for different things, it is not nearly strong enough for an application such as this. Even with the braces, I would consider an epoxy repair for the housing to be mostly feel good window dressing.

If you really just don't want to replace the housing, call some weld shops, you might be pleasantly surprised.

It is my believe that all Supers should have braces installed. I just tore my 1872 down for a bad hydro and although nothing is broken I will be installing braces on this one as well. That just leaves one Super left in my stable to install braces on when "I have nothing better to do"... :lol:
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
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BigMike
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by BigMike »

wtgvr4me03 wrote:BigMikE, Would you recommend something other than the 4043 filler? ThanksDave
4043 would be my first choice.
If you want to try and repair it I would be glad to give it a shot.....not much to lose,just some shipping.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

BigMike wrote:
wtgvr4me03 wrote:BigMikE, Would you recommend something other than the 4043 filler? ThanksDave
4043 would be my first choice.
If you want to try and repair it I would be glad to give it a shot.....not much to lose,just some shipping.
BigMike thank you for the offer! Unfortunately I had a guy come out to the house an attempt it yesterday. It did not go well.
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by JoeK »

my 1772 broke in the same area, a little different break mind you but still broke.... i also ordered the brace kit from extreme but i also cleaned the break and used a cut off wheel to cut nicks in the metal and used epoxy to glue the pieces back together. how long will it last, im not sure but it held torquing to 38 lb-ft.... :roll: twice, had to pull hydro back off to replace a leaking gasket that was half gone and missed when i had the rear end split. :oops:

hate asking on another persons post but how much do these little diesels vibrate after the drive line has been rebuilt?? got mine running and thought it would run smoother then it dose, im guessing my inexperience with the 3cylinder diesel may also be a factor here but mine still shakes, is there a way to add a vibration dampener somewhere or new motor mounts??? :?:
1772 - my new toy
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wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

JoeK wrote: hate asking on another persons post but how much do these little diesels vibrate after the drive line has been rebuilt?? got mine running and thought it would run smoother then it dose, im guessing my inexperience with the 3cylinder diesel may also be a factor here but mine still shakes, is there a way to add a vibration dampener somewhere or new motor mounts??? :?:
Honestly they should run pretty smooth. Mine has vibrated badly two times now. The first was when the drive shaft needed rebuilt, and now with the front mount broken. I have also noticed that throttle position makes a difference. I have always cut grass at full throttle, really no need to on these diesels.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

Tom Scott wrote: I pretty much outlined the whole process in the "Cinderella thread" which can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5282&start=150 As part of the job I built my own braces, as others have done as well.
:?:
Tom,

That was a good read for sure! How is the sealant holding up? I am going to try to track down the same that you used prior to assembly. The last one I had apart, I just used permatex ultra on everything along with the gaskets and had leaks!

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dag1450
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by dag1450 »

Dave S. If u have trouble finding a nice adapter down your way...just ask us. Three r a couple guys up here in PA that might have a few. Good luck.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

dag1450 wrote:Dave S. If u have trouble finding a nice adapter down your way...just ask us. Three r a couple guys up here in PA that might have a few. Good luck.
I will keep that in mind. Thank you, I am also from PA. Certainly miss the small town atmosphere but glad to be away from the the winter damage to the truck! It is so much nicer working on a vehicle that everything is not all rusted up on!!

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

I am honestly thinking of putting it all together with the new braces without that one front mount. If it doesn't feel right I can always do it over as it does not take very long to drop the rear out of it.

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dag1450
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by dag1450 »

Ok.....one of my former 2072s had a bolt or two drilled back from the stock threaded bolt holes. There looks to b some good meat back there! Maybe a plate and a couple new holes for through bolts. Idk.
Yes the rust.....thanks for reminding me. :x
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.

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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by 9803412 »

Dave

As a test I pulled the bolts out of the front mount on a 2182 with a 60" Haban under it that I had installed the brace's on. and didn't notice any twist. I even ran 1 front wheel up on a ramp to see if it would cause the frame to twist. Solid as a rock. The frames on the Supers tend to twist because they are longer than the GT's in my opinion this is what causes the failure at the front of the trans. Cub designed it as a stressed member. Put the brace on and be happy.

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BigMike
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by BigMike »

Dave, what I see in the pic is he did not have much luck because he did not put much effort into the repair.

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

BigMike wrote:Dave, what I see in the pic is he did not have much luck because he did not put much effort into the repair.
BigMike,

I was kind of surprised how quickly he gave up. It was very windy and cold and we were attempting it in the driveway. I did offer to move the car out of the other side of the garage to block the wind... Impressive how you knew that minimal time was spent on the attempt!!

wtgvr4me03
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by wtgvr4me03 »

9803412 wrote:Dave

As a test I pulled the bolts out of the front mount on a 2182 with a 60" Haban under it that I had installed the brace's on. and didn't notice any twist. I even ran 1 front wheel up on a ramp to see if it would cause the frame to twist. Solid as a rock. The frames on the Supers tend to twist because they are longer than the GT's in my opinion this is what causes the failure at the front of the trans. Cub designed it as a stressed member. Put the brace on and be happy.
Thank you for the info! All my parts arrived today. However I have finals tomorrow:( Terrible being 39 years old and back in school while working fulltime lol.. So I should get to cleaning everything up on Saturday and assembled by Sunday. I will wait until Tuesday to put fluid in it. I really don't want any leaks so I went with the sealants Tom used.

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Tom Scott
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by Tom Scott »

Dave S. - I have zero leaks on that tractor to this day.

Also, it is my opinion that all the 3/8" fasteners that bolt into the aluminum should be torqued to 30 ft-lbs. This is the torque spec Cub calls out for the axle carrier bolts (axle "tubes"). If you look up Grade 5 fasteners you will see a higher torque spec but the fasteners in this application are "lubricated" by the sealant, and they are threading into aluminum. I would not torque any of the 3/8" threading into the aluminum any higher than 30 ft-lb.

Also, I believe the primary reason the aluminum housings break (in addition to being a bad design) is that owners don't regularly check the torque of these fasteners. You shouldn't have to, but with the bad design it is good to set the torque wrench to 30 ft-lb and check them all once a year as part of regular service.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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Re: 1572 rear end

Post by PGHsteelworker »

I had both sides welded up on my 2182 a couple of years ago by a guy at work using a tig and they came out looking very nice and are still looking good. I did have him add some extra bracing at the time also. I use this primarily with a blade now and don't baby it.

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