Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues.
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
- First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
- Location: Arcadia, Ohio
Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues.
Hi everyone, looking for some technical help here on project 1872 a.k.a. The Scrapyard special, or Back from the dead.
Background: a friend found this tractor in a scrapyard last month, we bought it at the right price, came with a 60" deck, but she had lived a hard life. Rear end housing was cracked, improvised bracketing/reinforcement held the rear end to the frame. Bent drive shaft, a KT17/II in place of the M18, bent steering ram and destroyed steering hoses.
So far.. Replaced the KT17 with a low hour M18. Rebuilt the rear end around a cast housing from a 1250 using the SGT pump and all of the 1872 internals, fresh fluid and gaskets. Replaced the drieshaft and steering ram/hoses.
The problem we are having is that the tractor seems to have no pressure to run the steering and hydro lift. Todd M. has been a great deal of help in chasing the problem back this far. My first thought was that something was damaged in the steering box, but I don't think that is the problem now. Forward and backward movement is fine, works as it should, so the pump is pumping. And nothing is leaking or acting odd. Fluid level has been double checked.
No It's not filled with real Hytran, it's Hytran equivalent from Rural King until we iron out all the issues.
Decided the best way to illustrate the issue would be to use imagery supplied by IH and C.C.C. for the express use of repairing the machine in question.
A picture from the 82 series service manual describing the major components.
Pressure gauge arrived yesterday, we connected it as per the manual. At full throttle the gauge only shows about 200 - 250 psi, at either end of the travel of the lift cylinder there was no change in the observed pressure.
The next thing we did (Yesterday) was compare both Charge pump and Implement lift relief valves with the same parts pulled from a ported pump from a 1450, found that #19 in this image (Spring) was broken and #20 (Cone) was missing all together, replaced with the 1450 parts. Still no real change I had hoped we had found the problem but replacing the parts had to effect.
Then we tried various combinations of shims on either valve, again, absolutely no change. Both relief valve assemblies are in good condition, clean and free of rust and debris.
I am open to any ideas and suggestions. I know this tractor had be worked on by someone in it's past, but the hydro pump had an even coating of grunge on it, it did not look like it had been disassembled recently, but at some point someone must have pulled the charge pump relief valve. ?
Background: a friend found this tractor in a scrapyard last month, we bought it at the right price, came with a 60" deck, but she had lived a hard life. Rear end housing was cracked, improvised bracketing/reinforcement held the rear end to the frame. Bent drive shaft, a KT17/II in place of the M18, bent steering ram and destroyed steering hoses.
So far.. Replaced the KT17 with a low hour M18. Rebuilt the rear end around a cast housing from a 1250 using the SGT pump and all of the 1872 internals, fresh fluid and gaskets. Replaced the drieshaft and steering ram/hoses.
The problem we are having is that the tractor seems to have no pressure to run the steering and hydro lift. Todd M. has been a great deal of help in chasing the problem back this far. My first thought was that something was damaged in the steering box, but I don't think that is the problem now. Forward and backward movement is fine, works as it should, so the pump is pumping. And nothing is leaking or acting odd. Fluid level has been double checked.
No It's not filled with real Hytran, it's Hytran equivalent from Rural King until we iron out all the issues.
Decided the best way to illustrate the issue would be to use imagery supplied by IH and C.C.C. for the express use of repairing the machine in question.
A picture from the 82 series service manual describing the major components.
Pressure gauge arrived yesterday, we connected it as per the manual. At full throttle the gauge only shows about 200 - 250 psi, at either end of the travel of the lift cylinder there was no change in the observed pressure.
The next thing we did (Yesterday) was compare both Charge pump and Implement lift relief valves with the same parts pulled from a ported pump from a 1450, found that #19 in this image (Spring) was broken and #20 (Cone) was missing all together, replaced with the 1450 parts. Still no real change I had hoped we had found the problem but replacing the parts had to effect.
Then we tried various combinations of shims on either valve, again, absolutely no change. Both relief valve assemblies are in good condition, clean and free of rust and debris.
I am open to any ideas and suggestions. I know this tractor had be worked on by someone in it's past, but the hydro pump had an even coating of grunge on it, it did not look like it had been disassembled recently, but at some point someone must have pulled the charge pump relief valve. ?
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?
- dag1450
- Posts: 2356
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:16 pm
- First and Last Name: Dave Gibson
- Location: Chalfont, Pa
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
With all this work done....Might b a good idea to verify each line is in its correct location. It gets tough down under the gas tank. If u have another unit u can trace each line.....That might b the easiest. Good luck.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
- First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
- Location: Arcadia, Ohio
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Every line has been taken off, checked for blockages, and double checked for it's proper spot.dag1450 wrote:With all this work done....Might b a good idea to verify each line is in its correct location. It gets tough down under the gas tank. If u have another unit u can trace each line.....That might b the easiest. Good luck.
Needless to say, this is a little frustrating.
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?
- BigMike
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
- First and Last Name: Mike Andrews
- Location: Niles,Michigan
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Is the hydro common or is there a difference GT to Super?
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:05 am
- First and Last Name: Sam McCleary
- Location: Galax VA
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
What are you using for a filter?
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
- First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
- Location: Arcadia, Ohio
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
GT and SGT have some differences, ended up splitting both Hydro units and moving the Charge pump from the GT to the SGT setup.BigMike wrote:Is the hydro common or is there a difference GT to Super?
Sadly, still have the same problem. Going to take apart the Steering gear next.
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
- First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
- Location: Arcadia, Ohio
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Pretty sure it's a Cub Cadet filter, but I will check tomorrow, man if that's the problem after all this I am going to loose it.9803412 wrote:What are you using for a filter?
I probably have 40 hours in this tractor already.
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?
- BigMike
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
- First and Last Name: Mike Andrews
- Location: Niles,Michigan
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Before you tear into the steering box what if you get a hose/hoses to bypass the steering and see what that does?
Is the out put shaft tooth count the same between the hydros?
Is the out put shaft tooth count the same between the hydros?
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:05 am
- First and Last Name: Sam McCleary
- Location: Galax VA
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
NAPA 1410, Wix 51410 or Cub filter. I use NAPA1410 filters. Just had a guy with the same problem, he had an engine oil filter on his. It would move but no lift. Changed the filter and all good now. Engine oil filters have an anti drain back valve and the charge pumps have trouble overcoming the restriction.
-
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:40 pm
- First and Last Name: Todd O'Connor
- Location: Ball Ground, Georgia
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
+1 on changing the filter. I had a similar issue on a 1772 that I rebuilt the steering box on. It wouldn't work at all. I ended up taking a hose loose on the ram and worked the steering wheel full left and right a few times and that took care of the issue.
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
- First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
- Location: Arcadia, Ohio
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Put a real honest to gosh Cub Cadet Filter on it and....no change. Bled every line, no change.
I am at a loss, every thing I have tried, nothing helps, heavy steering, slow lift.
I think it's in the box, but I am not going to spend another $50 on hoses to bypass it. Going to take the box apart and try and see what is going on.
I am at a loss, every thing I have tried, nothing helps, heavy steering, slow lift.
I think it's in the box, but I am not going to spend another $50 on hoses to bypass it. Going to take the box apart and try and see what is going on.
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?
- BigMike
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
- First and Last Name: Mike Andrews
- Location: Niles,Michigan
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Can you get simple connectors to hook the hoses end for end?
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:05 am
- First and Last Name: Sam McCleary
- Location: Galax VA
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Is it plumbed properly? Maybe the PO got a line swapped.
- Jlaws
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:14 pm
- First and Last Name: Jess Laws
- Location: Independence , Ky
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Aaron in figure 1 of your first post which shows the implement and charge pump relief valves , If I remember correctly the cone part #20 in the charge pump #4 is longer than the one in the # 2 relief valve part # 33 . Also if I remember correctly the charge pump had a stiffer spring . Are your relief valve cones of different lengths ?
I seem to remember going thru this lift pressure issue with a 1810 to 1811 conversion that I did that ended up at your place ....
I seem to remember going thru this lift pressure issue with a 1810 to 1811 conversion that I did that ended up at your place ....
I see a lot of cub cadets while going down the tracks , its a shame I can't pull over and ask about them .
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:12 am
- First and Last Name: Aaron W. Gonya
- Location: Arcadia, Ohio
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
You guys are gonna have to forgive me, I swear I checked the hard lines a half dozen times, and I could swear they were correct.
I swapped them tonight, and now, everything works, power steering is super smooth, lift is fast, just perfect.
I have never denied that I'm an idiot, in my own defense, and my only defense, this is all new territory for me.
I guess this might be what put her in the junkyard in the first place, but at least I'm not the worlds only idiot!
I swapped them tonight, and now, everything works, power steering is super smooth, lift is fast, just perfect.
I have never denied that I'm an idiot, in my own defense, and my only defense, this is all new territory for me.
I guess this might be what put her in the junkyard in the first place, but at least I'm not the worlds only idiot!
Can you buy WD40 by the tank car?
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:05 am
- First and Last Name: Sam McCleary
- Location: Galax VA
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
I've seen it before, that's why I posted the pic on how the line go. Glad to hear that you got it fixed.
- dag1450
- Posts: 2356
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:16 pm
- First and Last Name: Dave Gibson
- Location: Chalfont, Pa
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
Aaron...good thing u got this figured out.....Big Mike told me he was almost ready to head down to get after it!
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.
- Tom Scott
- Chief Moderator
- Posts: 1762
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:11 pm
- First and Last Name: Tom Scott
- Location: Bentley Springs, Maryland
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
AW, I'm glad you got it, but it's tough when dag nailed it on day one! Couldn't we of had a solution where dag isn't right?dag1450 wrote:With all this work done....Might b a good idea to verify each line is in its correct location. It gets tough down under the gas tank. If u have another unit u can trace each line.....That might b the easiest. Good luck.
1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors: 1541, 2135
<><
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors: 1541, 2135
<><
- BigMike
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 pm
- First and Last Name: Mike Andrews
- Location: Niles,Michigan
Re: Project 1872.. the not working hydro adventure continues
I wish I was closer....I would have to be told to leavedag1450 wrote:Big Mike told me he was almost ready to head down to get after it!