Loader Mutt Continues...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
And placed one atop the other... looks like the OD of the new race needs to be about 0.070" larger or so...
And I need to go back and check-see how much space the Mustang axles will need in order to fit through the hole in the middle.
And I need to go back and check-see how much space the Mustang axles will need in order to fit through the hole in the middle.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Well... crap.
Okay, so after doing a bunch of work on the lawn mower, a substantial array of yard work, giving the Allis WD a tune up, and running a load of compost in the dump trailer, i took a few minutes to carry one of the bearing cups into the shop and attempt to push out the old bearing race.
No joy.
I tried warming up the cup a bit, to see if it'd expand enough to release the race...
no joy.
I even had a ruben sandwich for lunch... before addressing it a bit with a ball-peen hammer and a chisel...
and still... it didn't budge.
I don't have an expander-driver to fit this, so... unless there's any better ideas... I think I'll hafta cut the ID of the axle shaft hole big enough to give me a bit more lip to work with, then cut a piece of round stock to fit that lip well enough to use the hydraulic press...
Unless one'a youse guys has some other trick to pushing these races out... ??
Okay, so after doing a bunch of work on the lawn mower, a substantial array of yard work, giving the Allis WD a tune up, and running a load of compost in the dump trailer, i took a few minutes to carry one of the bearing cups into the shop and attempt to push out the old bearing race.
No joy.
I tried warming up the cup a bit, to see if it'd expand enough to release the race...
no joy.
I even had a ruben sandwich for lunch... before addressing it a bit with a ball-peen hammer and a chisel...
and still... it didn't budge.
I don't have an expander-driver to fit this, so... unless there's any better ideas... I think I'll hafta cut the ID of the axle shaft hole big enough to give me a bit more lip to work with, then cut a piece of round stock to fit that lip well enough to use the hydraulic press...
Unless one'a youse guys has some other trick to pushing these races out... ??
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
if the race won't be used weld around the id of it and it should shrink enough to all but fall out
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
That's what the Ford guys do to get the cyl liners out of the block.dale campbell wrote:if the race won't be used weld around the id of it and it should shrink enough to all but fall out
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Wow... I can't believe I forgot about that trick... thanks for the reminder, guys!!!
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
So once I got the races out, I chucked one in the lathe and centered it up. Then I cut out just enough to get the larger race into the cup.
It's a little bit larger than the original, but not enough to worry about losing too much 'meat' off the cup.
It's a little bit larger than the original, but not enough to worry about losing too much 'meat' off the cup.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Then, to make for easy on-and-off measuring, I took die grinder to the ID of one of the old bearings, and wore it down 'till it'd slip onto the diff carrier with no effort... then dropped the bearing onto the 'short' end of the diff, and installed the cup with bolts just-barely-started...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
...then I laid the housing on it's side so that gravity would pull the diff carrier assembly away from the pinion. Then I hand-threaded the cup bolts in 'till I was in about the right range for tooth engagement. By the looks of it, I'll be chewing lots of metal off this side's cap to get proper ring/pinion lash....
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
but there's plenty of room on the inside where I can just shallow up the cup substantially, AND... since the bearing is not overhanging deep inside the case, the bearing will be supported around perimeter by the case, and basically centered on the case's support axis.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Basically, I can cut that shell down 'till it's only slightly protruding into the case.
On the top side (left side), it looks like getting the support plate and bearing cup in there will be simple enough...
On the top side (left side), it looks like getting the support plate and bearing cup in there will be simple enough...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
MWSC sells support reinforcement plates for those cast bearing cups to help from breaking. I think you will have one already made when you do your custom side. On those races in the cups, i think the Chrysler's go in larger and deeper.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Yep, excellent thoughts, and I saw those... and I'm curious... do they really experience breakage there? If so, the presence of that flat plate on the OUTSIDE implies to me that there's deflection from the bearing being overhung from the housing wall such that it's deflecting downward under pinion force. If I cut mine to bring that bearing directly into the housing wall, there won't be any overhanging moment... that downward force will be directly into the housing, not deflecting the cup.
Yes, the other side will substantially change how the cup is supported. I've considered just making a large filler plate with integral cap, however, save for making shims that fill the large circumference, this would eliminate the adjustment facility for that side, which is not good... it really needs to be adjustable on both sides... so I'll seek a way to make the cup, either in it's original form, or in a steel replacement... do the job.
I could just make two totally new cups out of steel... which I might end up doing in the long run, but for nothing more than an exercise of experimentation, I'll cut up these iron cups 'till I know just exactly what I'll do.
Yes, the other side will substantially change how the cup is supported. I've considered just making a large filler plate with integral cap, however, save for making shims that fill the large circumference, this would eliminate the adjustment facility for that side, which is not good... it really needs to be adjustable on both sides... so I'll seek a way to make the cup, either in it's original form, or in a steel replacement... do the job.
I could just make two totally new cups out of steel... which I might end up doing in the long run, but for nothing more than an exercise of experimentation, I'll cut up these iron cups 'till I know just exactly what I'll do.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
And this project isn't without plenty of contemplation... my posting of pictures may seem whirlwind at times, but really, my projects occur in cycles, where I do some, then study, research, then conceptualize and experiment, then I do some more. Generally, for every 30 minutes I spend in the shop, I spend at least 4 hours processing-out my next moves.
If this were an extremely serious project, I would probably be much more concerned about chewing into a piece of precision iron all willy-nilly... but since this isn't that serous a project, and since the parts I'm using are not particularly expensive or hard-to-find, I can be more relaxed in my approach to doing this.
And the last thought... the modifications I see for basically everyone on this sort of subject, all revolve around tractor pulling. I'm NOT tractor pulling... I'm using it as heavy equipment... which is similar in one respect: that parts break. The rest is basically unrelated... the reason for breaking isn't because I'm running stupid horsepower (well, the GX660 isn't a pooch, but) and it isn't because I'm running way too much ballast (even though I am), or because my thrust load gets imbalanced and squirrly (even though it usually is) or because it's bouncing up and down (which is an understatement), but because the parts I'm breaking (notably, just the axle shafts) have been broken by others, and they've done it while pulling, not while slamming into a pile of rocky frozen dirt.
Which reminds me... I need to inspect, and probably reinforce those loader lift arms a bit...
If this were an extremely serious project, I would probably be much more concerned about chewing into a piece of precision iron all willy-nilly... but since this isn't that serous a project, and since the parts I'm using are not particularly expensive or hard-to-find, I can be more relaxed in my approach to doing this.
And the last thought... the modifications I see for basically everyone on this sort of subject, all revolve around tractor pulling. I'm NOT tractor pulling... I'm using it as heavy equipment... which is similar in one respect: that parts break. The rest is basically unrelated... the reason for breaking isn't because I'm running stupid horsepower (well, the GX660 isn't a pooch, but) and it isn't because I'm running way too much ballast (even though I am), or because my thrust load gets imbalanced and squirrly (even though it usually is) or because it's bouncing up and down (which is an understatement), but because the parts I'm breaking (notably, just the axle shafts) have been broken by others, and they've done it while pulling, not while slamming into a pile of rocky frozen dirt.
Which reminds me... I need to inspect, and probably reinforce those loader lift arms a bit...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
And yes, I solve problems in my sleep... I fix radio transcievers, tractors, boats, electric generators, bathroom plumbing problems, I train cats, analyze failures of scale components, and ... while my eyes are closed... I don't know how or why, but I do... 'been that way since June of 1982.
So here's my general thought here... with this cap already supporting the carrier, it exhibits appropriate position INSIDE, with this much hanging off OUTSIDE.
That being the case, if I eliminate THIS MUCH material from the protrusion of the cup, and then size is internally for the bearing, I should be good on this side.
Since I've already sized THIS cup for stock (just opened up the ID to accept a bearing race), I'll leave it as-is, and attack the OTHER cup. While I'm doing that, I also need to make sure the shaft ID is big enough to accept the Mustang axle shaft, and that the cup bore AND it's mounting face are coplanar and concentric, as the one I cut (above) was NOT QUITE right... and that MAY have contributed in some way to the axleshaft failures I'd experienced.
I still have no clue what the difference between the two casting numbers (right and left cups) are all about... but after I'm done hacking away at them, it probably won't matter.
So here's my general thought here... with this cap already supporting the carrier, it exhibits appropriate position INSIDE, with this much hanging off OUTSIDE.
That being the case, if I eliminate THIS MUCH material from the protrusion of the cup, and then size is internally for the bearing, I should be good on this side.
Since I've already sized THIS cup for stock (just opened up the ID to accept a bearing race), I'll leave it as-is, and attack the OTHER cup. While I'm doing that, I also need to make sure the shaft ID is big enough to accept the Mustang axle shaft, and that the cup bore AND it's mounting face are coplanar and concentric, as the one I cut (above) was NOT QUITE right... and that MAY have contributed in some way to the axleshaft failures I'd experienced.
I still have no clue what the difference between the two casting numbers (right and left cups) are all about... but after I'm done hacking away at them, it probably won't matter.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Okay, now time to share some knowledge... some that was hard-learned, some not so difficult...
First, this is a three-sided object which needs to be concentric and perpendicular to be 'right'. Unfortunately, a four-jaw chuck doesn't grip it too well.
There's 'timed' chucks, and 'independent' chucks. My four jaw (in background) is an independant jaw chuck- I can put ANY jaw, anywhere... and they're reversible. There's a threaded socket on each jaw that allows me to move any jaw individually.
The foreground is a three-jaw Cushman timed chuck... that means there's a scroll thread inside that, when you turn one, all three jaws move together.
For a newbie, the three jaw timed chuck is what they all think they need, but in truth, is NOT the appropriate choice for most purposes, and the exercise that follows, is a perfect example of why a three or four jaw independant is the best chuck to have for a 'first' lathe chuck.
Why?
Because using a timed chuck demands that there are concentric surfaces available to hold onto in the FIRST place.
First, this is a three-sided object which needs to be concentric and perpendicular to be 'right'. Unfortunately, a four-jaw chuck doesn't grip it too well.
There's 'timed' chucks, and 'independent' chucks. My four jaw (in background) is an independant jaw chuck- I can put ANY jaw, anywhere... and they're reversible. There's a threaded socket on each jaw that allows me to move any jaw individually.
The foreground is a three-jaw Cushman timed chuck... that means there's a scroll thread inside that, when you turn one, all three jaws move together.
For a newbie, the three jaw timed chuck is what they all think they need, but in truth, is NOT the appropriate choice for most purposes, and the exercise that follows, is a perfect example of why a three or four jaw independant is the best chuck to have for a 'first' lathe chuck.
Why?
Because using a timed chuck demands that there are concentric surfaces available to hold onto in the FIRST place.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Here's how the cup sits in the three-jaw... looks good, right?
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Well, it's not. See, I can only grab it on a non-machined surface, and as a result, there is no 'registration' to make it concentric. In simpler terms, It's not perfect on the outside, it hasn't been machined there, so I'm grabbing it where it ain't straight.
If I were able to grab it with a three-jaw independant, i could adjust the jaws to OBTAIN center, where there was none to start with. Since I can't do that, i simply have to guess, and add shim stock to try and correct for any error....
and then check again with dial indicator... on a machined surface.
If I were able to grab it with a three-jaw independant, i could adjust the jaws to OBTAIN center, where there was none to start with. Since I can't do that, i simply have to guess, and add shim stock to try and correct for any error....
and then check again with dial indicator... on a machined surface.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Now, to figure out what to take off...
I initially figured I'd just use a stack of feeler gauges, but I found the approximate distance to be bigger than the full stack... but when I turned it sideways, it got me close...
Then I used that to figure out how much to tear off the end of the cap
I initially figured I'd just use a stack of feeler gauges, but I found the approximate distance to be bigger than the full stack... but when I turned it sideways, it got me close...
Then I used that to figure out how much to tear off the end of the cap
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
So I arbitrarily knocked about-that-much off, then bored it to accept the larger bearing race.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
And as I was doing so, I watched very closely here...
because that O-ring groove (that they didn't put O-rings in) is in a spot that'll be a bit thin once this new bearing race is in place...
because that O-ring groove (that they didn't put O-rings in) is in a spot that'll be a bit thin once this new bearing race is in place...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
But it does look okay, at least... for the process of getting fitment dimensions anyway.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
So, now that it's been cut down, I removed the OTHER one (that was cut to ID to accept race, but NOT to any depth...)
and installed the shallowed cup on the right (near) side... and it looks pretty good so far...
and installed the shallowed cup on the right (near) side... and it looks pretty good so far...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Now, it's clear that I WILL have to go in a little bit deeper on the short side, as I don't have any room to adjust for gear lash, but look at the other side...
it's about perfect, if I use a piece of 1/4" plate, with a 1/2" plate to register to the ID of the big hole...
it's about perfect, if I use a piece of 1/4" plate, with a 1/2" plate to register to the ID of the big hole...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
So there it is- caps holding bearings, all down properly on the right side, and it couldn't fit better!
Now that the cups are appropriately chewed, I've measured the left side opening for appropriate bearing support and filler. That part will have to wait, as I'm gonna have my buddy laser-cut those, as well as the side flanges for the new axle tube system and gussets.
Now that the cups are appropriately chewed, I've measured the left side opening for appropriate bearing support and filler. That part will have to wait, as I'm gonna have my buddy laser-cut those, as well as the side flanges for the new axle tube system and gussets.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Now on to the REAL reason why I started this in the first place...
The axle shafts. The original ones were .883 at the 'necked down' point just before the splines... and .9995 at the far (bearing support) end.
The axle shafts. The original ones were .883 at the 'necked down' point just before the splines... and .9995 at the far (bearing support) end.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
But the 'new' axles... from the Mustang 7.5" LSD axle... are 1.36" at the necked portion, and a beastly (in comparison) 1.611" at the bearing end.
And yes, I know I'm committing a major Faux Pas by using the jaws somewhere other than the sharp edge, but I was balancing several things whilst holding the camera, and it ain't being measured for precision, so get over it...
And yes, I know I'm committing a major Faux Pas by using the jaws somewhere other than the sharp edge, but I was balancing several things whilst holding the camera, and it ain't being measured for precision, so get over it...
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
To get a general idea of how much we're talking in difference here...
Here's the original axle shaft, with caliper set to 1.367 (the 7.5") ... and there's a whole lotta difference here.
Here's the original axle shaft, with caliper set to 1.367 (the 7.5") ... and there's a whole lotta difference here.
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
Or look at it this way:
Old on top, new on bottom...
and old on left, new on right
Old on top, new on bottom...
and old on left, new on right
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
More crickets....
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Re: Loader Mutt Continues...
I’m still trying to understand the first post!
In reality your just 10 steps above us!
Most guys (me included) would rather buy a bigger or newer tractor better suited for the job. Maybe a skid steer? Maybe a small payloader? I went the route of a cub with the loader for small yard chores, mulch leafs etc. and a mid-sized back hoe. It’s old and leaky but runs great after a rebuild and cost much less then new. Plus it’s big enough I can sling a super and put It where ever I want! Just gota be able to maintain..... waiting on a axle gasket for it as I pulled apart some of the final drive over the weekend. All is fixed and no major damage. Much easier to repair then re engineer!
Your a class above for sure!
In reality your just 10 steps above us!
Most guys (me included) would rather buy a bigger or newer tractor better suited for the job. Maybe a skid steer? Maybe a small payloader? I went the route of a cub with the loader for small yard chores, mulch leafs etc. and a mid-sized back hoe. It’s old and leaky but runs great after a rebuild and cost much less then new. Plus it’s big enough I can sling a super and put It where ever I want! Just gota be able to maintain..... waiting on a axle gasket for it as I pulled apart some of the final drive over the weekend. All is fixed and no major damage. Much easier to repair then re engineer!
Your a class above for sure!