Series I or II?

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rjarvis1961
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Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Hello,
Been a while since on the forum. Hope all is well as mowing season is here in the North East. Can anyone tell by the Pics if this is a Series I or II engine. It is in a 682 I am looking at on-line. Owner says it is a K-17 but not sure if I or II. By the Serial # and Oil plug shape , thinking must be a Series I. Thank you
Rich
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dag1450
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by dag1450 »

The 682s are a nice basic tractor. Hopefully it works out for you. The thing I have learned over the years with garden tractors is that the engines get changed out quite often.... because it's so easy. And the probability goes even higher the older a tractor gets. That being said I'm not familiar with the kt engines but I did an Internet search and the most defining differences between 1 & 2 are the oil system. The series 2 has a blank off plate on the front lower right side of engine where the newer magnum and maybe some 2s have an oil filter. The cover has 2 allen screws holding it on. Series 1 have nothing there but engine casting if you will. I do remember people saying the big problem with series 1 was using the tractor on hills and slopes can cause lack of oil to certain areas in the engine. Good luck. Maybe someone else will chime in that has better info on this topic. Keep us posted.
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Thank you for your reply. I went and looked at the 682 today. The owner said he’d had the machine 15 years. He also said it does not have an oil filter. It started right up and seemed to function well when driven. Owner said he’s never had a problem with it, but also only mowed on a flat parcel of land. Asking price is $950, but I know ai can get him down some (maybe $800). Tires are good, deck is solid , tin is straight. I’m just very skeptical of the K-17 Series I from what I have read about them blowing up on hills /slopes. I love the 82 body type and own a 782 which has been very good to me (18hp Kohler Command).
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Tom Scott
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by Tom Scott »

Richard, good to see you back.  dag must have his meds dialed in, because I think he nailed this one and stuck the landing!  Lol

Expanding on dag's explanation, the difference in the oil system I remember is that the Series I relied on splash lubrication and on hills/slopes it didn't always lubricate adequately.  This caused a whole bunch of engine failures for Cub and Deere, which then led to a few years of Kohler being punished and new Cubs and Deeres getting Onan engines, which had their own issues.  I believe the Series II had pressurized lubrication like the Magnums do.

You'll have to decide for yourself, but I wouldn't have a Series I unless I was ok with expecting to replace the engine.  I'd be ok with a Series II with a pressurized oil system without a filter.  You can overcome no oil filter by more frequent oil changes, but you can't overcome oil starvation.

Myself, I'd walk away from this machine.  Not worth waiting for the Series I to blow up.  If you can get it real cheap, like half what he's asking, and have a good lead on a Series II or Magnum, then maybe I'd go for it.  But that's just me.  There's still plenty of other good tractors out there without time bombs under the hood.
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dag1450
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by dag1450 »

Richard...Just to clarify. I don't believe any kt's 1 or 2 have an oil filter. From what I understand the 2s have a distinct cover plate where the newer magnum s would have a filter. Front lower right hand side. I'm just guessing... but with a good flashlight you should probably be able to look in the front below the exhaust and see ( now would be the lower left) the cover plate and screws ....or no cover plate.
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Feedback, knowledge and advice much appreciated Dag and Tom. I think it’s that damn Red color and body type in the 82’s that get me going every time?! Eventually I’d like to own a 582, 682 and 782 (which I do have now). Probably hold off on the 982 as the fourth and biggest could be the demise of my marriage! If I knew how to do an engine swap and could grab a that machine cheap price (as you say Tom), I’d go for it. Same with any other that had a K-17 I or II. I’ll just keep looking for them that hopefully have a Magnum or better engine. Again, most appreciated.
Cheers!
Rich
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dag1450
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by dag1450 »

OH I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN ABOUT THE RED. I was on the hunt for red years ago....till I found out the yellow and white after the red were in my opinion better machines. Never did come home with a red one. Still looks cool though! Good luck on your collection.
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ksanders
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by ksanders »

Yes, the red ones just have a look to them! They age well too in terms of usability.

I've used a LOT of mowers over the years from an Original to bigger zero turns and I still stick with the 782 as my go to. They won't compete with a zero turn on pure speed but they cover a whole lot of ground quick especially 50" at a time, very nimble and agile with a correctly set up steering (plus 3 turn column upgrade), don't jar you too bad on rough ground with a quality seat, and shim out that trunion spring a touch and really zip forward and reverse. I have a 982 also and will say unless you have some ground or use for it, it's much bigger and bulkier to move around obstacles in my opinion. It's a worker and I use mine a lot but for cutting grass I never enjoyed it as much as the smaller red x82 series.

On the 682 I know a few people here still using Series 1 engines. It wouldn't completely keep me from buying one but I would be mindful not all parts in that engine are still available I don't believe and I certainly wouldn't pay more than half that price for any 682 unless it was immaculate. A 682 just don't seem to sell as high as a 782 which is ironic because to just cut like most people do a 682 is probably better because the hydro lift won't bleed off while cutting or require setting the stop.

And a filter is extremely easy to add to a Series 2 engine, as well as oil pressure warning light. Easy to obtain parts from an 1810 or 1811 and mostly bolt and go
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Yes, love my 782. I only mow with it and/or hook up a cart to the back to pick up debris and haul off. Actually that’s not all as I have pulled a plug aerator and a spreader to seed and fertilize. I just really like the ease of using this machine , along with the comfort and power of the 18hp Kohler Command. I’ve been lucky too, as I am limited in my fix-ability /tinkering. That said, Kevin , what do you mean by ‘ plus three turn column upgrade’ on the steering? Wondering if it is something I can actually do myself? Also curious as to what you mean by saying ‘ the hydro won’t bleed off or require setting the stop’ when cutting with a 682 vs a 782 ? And … if I do come across a 682 with a Series II K-17 , I’ll be sure to check with ya and others on the forum about adding an oil filter. Unfortunately I have to look for machines that are already ‘tight and sound’ and most likely pay more for them as I mentioned before that I’m not a ‘fixer-upper.’ I just like ‘em and appreciate their sustainability. Same goes for the ‘56 Chevy I have always dreamed of owning!!
Cheers!
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ksanders
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by ksanders »

I've always found the hydro lift models to slowly "creep down" and be cutting lower and lower as you cut grass so I set the cam lock on the side so the mower can't drop any more while cutting. A manual lift 682 just set and go and it stays there.

The later MTD versions of our red ones (think 1810 and 1811 style) used a steering column with a tighter gearing or whatever inside them. They take 3 turns instead of 2 like the classic Ross columns in our red ones for full travel of the wheels. Grabbing a steering column from one of the later MTD models makes steering easier. It's a nifty upgrade. Same with adding the oil filter and warning light. They're standard parts on the MTD ones that bolt right in. You just have to notch the firewall a bit for the filter to bolt on.
From the first Original to the last x82 Series... you can't beat an IH Cub Cadet!!!
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by davis2 »

ksanders wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:10 am I've always found the hydro lift models to slowly "creep down" and be cutting lower and lower as you cut grass so I set the cam lock on the side so the mower can't drop any more while cutting. A manual lift 682 just set and go and it stays there.

The later MTD versions of our red ones (think 1810 and 1811 style) used a steering column with a tighter gearing or whatever inside them. They take 3 turns instead of 2 like the classic Ross columns in our red ones for full travel of the wheels. Grabbing a steering column from one of the later MTD models makes steering easier. It's a nifty upgrade. Same with adding the oil filter and warning light. They're standard parts on the MTD ones that bolt right in. You just have to notch the firewall a bit for the filter to bolt on.
I still prefer my 782 to anything else. Just used to it, and real don't want to change! I do have the series 1 without the filter. It has been in my family for years and is very dependable! Love it! I'll keep watching this thread for more info.
rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Well… the quest for a 682 continues. Looked at two the other day. Talk about complete opposites. One was ‘right out of the showroom’ , a beauty restored cosmetically by a former Collision guy. One problem though was that it was not complete, meaning no mower deck and/or mule drive and carriage. Asking price was $1600! Had a K-17 Series II with an oil plug … did not see a filter. Engine sounded a bit tinny to me. Great looking machine though! Too many unknowns re engine and finding a deck and Mike drive that would also have to be in great shape to match the rest of the machine. The other machine I looked at was not in good shape cosmetically . It too had a K-17 Series engine that sounded better than the aforementioned machine but smoked a lot. Asking price on that one was $800 … also too high. Well … the drives in the country to see the two machines were beautiful anyway and it doesn’t cost anything to look, right? To be con’t … Enjoy the 4th!!
Rich
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Happy 4th! Going to look at another 682 tomorrow. Owner has had the machine for 30 years. It’s a 1980 with a factory replaced K-17 Series II engine. Owner says it runs well, no smoke and no issues. He said the choke cable needs to be hooked up and the steering is sloppy. He’s also firm on price. Any advice on what else to look for would be most appreciated. Also, what may be involved with tightening up “sloppy steering.” Otherwise Pics look very nice. Good paint and straight tin all around. Front grill in tact, instrument panel not cracked, good seat (no tears or rips) , decals solid too. Be great to hear back from anyone before I head out for a 3 hr drive tomorrow AM, but know it’s the 4th of July!! Enjoy!
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Tom Scott
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by Tom Scott »

Rick, nice that you found another candidate to look at.  Let yourself enjoy the hunt (as you have been), that's part of the fun!

Sloppy steering can likely be improved some by adjusting the lash in the steering box, a very simple procedure.  At its worst, it would be a case of replacing a worn steering box or perhaps a worn linkage joint.  Really not a difficult job to replace the steering box.

I'd for sure take a tractor with a good engine and trans but bad steering box.  Just not a big deal to fix.  Keep us posted!
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1872, 46", 50C decks, Haban dozer blade, 450 snow blower
2182-1, Kwik-Way Loader, 3-pt & rear pto, 442 tiller
2182-2, 54" deck, 551 snow blower
Past tractors:  1541, 2135
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Appreciate the feedback Tom! Good to know the steering is not a major fix. I will be sure to keep you posted.
Rich
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Well… took the three hr drive yesterday to check her out. Machine looked pretty good. Steering was definitely wonky , way loose. Guy installed a cheaper carb on it which had a pulley that went the wrong way so you could not use the choke. He said the float on the original carb was damaged (leaked) and he could not find another one. The machine did start right up without the choke and the engine sounded good /strong. No smoke etc. The deck was not in good shape. He told me a local welder said $200 to repair the holes. I know I could find another deck in good shape. Just was unsure between the steering, the carb issue and the deck so did not commit to buying. Asking price was $750, which these days doesn’t seem too bad to me. Also was a bit skeptical of the history and some of the responses from the seller. When I asked him when the last time he mowed with it was , he said two weeks ago. Meanwhile the deck and mule drive were off the machine and it looked very clean. I’m thinking with the sloppy steering and the deck rot that probably is not true? Just don’t know if the guy threw it all together and installed a cheaper carb to sell it? He did have the original carb and he showed me two floats that were shot. Said he owned it for 30 years and installed the new factory k-17 series II after a couple of years of using the machine. I don’t know … just not the best vibe from me. Maybe missing out? Who knows? It was a long haul there and back , but a nice drive and a good lunch in a town where I used to sell a lot of beer before retiring. I could still probably buy the machine, but think I’m gonna pass?
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dag1450
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by dag1450 »

I feel your pain. Been there on the long drives only to find a piece of crap at the destination. It takes a level headed wise man to walk away at that point. Sounds like you make a good call!!
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.
rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Thanks! Well … one way or another I made a call. Machine was gone /sold today. I’ll never know … oh well. There will be others .
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rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

Good morning! Wondering what anyone thinks of the 1806 with the 18hp Kohler Magnum engine? I like the body type of the 82 Series Cubs , which the 1806 has. I like the power that my 782 has with an 18hp Kohler Command engine. Just not that impressed with the K-17 Series II engine. Thoughts? Thanks!
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dag1450
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by dag1450 »

Not real familiar with the 1806. If you are open to the yellow then the 1810, 11, 12 would be a great option. The 10 being manual lift, 11 being hydraulic lift, and 1812 being the holy Grail with hydraulic lift and remote ports on the front for a snow plow power angle. 1812 is super rare. 1811 is very common and has the magnum 18. I had one that super nice, deck was restored in perfect shape. Sold it for $800 or something like that few years back. Check those out.
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.
rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

https://share.icloud.com/photos/042ds0_ ... 99boFo_83w

Thank you for your reply Dag. Hopefully you can open the link and let me know what you , or anyone else, think?
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dag1450
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by dag1450 »

I'm sure whatever you posted is very cool and nice. Lol. But I can't see anything. Maybe just upload a normal picture.... sorry
127, 1650, 1572, 1872, 2072 . A mower, blower and blade for each.
rjarvis1961
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Re: Series I or II?

Post by rjarvis1961 »

I was trying to send a video that the seller of an 1806 sent to me to get some feedback on the sound of the engine and see it running and mowing. I’ll try and extract some Pics from the ad also to share.
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