2084 SGT

[GMUmberger]

I have a 2084 SGT and I believe it may be in need of
a rebuild. I was mowing for the second time this season and it shut down. It was low on oil which it does burn and I added oil and started it back up. It will run but when I place it in gear and engage the mower it cannot maintain power.
It has the Kohler engine in it. Is it worth a rebuild ?
Can it be overhauled ?

[dag1450]

Oh man Gary that stinks. That tractor is a nice big unit. What size mower deck do you have? . I would say if you want to keep that tractor you have two options. Find an exact replacement engine from a guy like ray weaver and ether you install the new engine or pay a small engine shop to install it. That will be sort of a gamble as you don't know what the used engine is like. Having rebuilt a Kohler magnum a few years ago I don't see rebuilding your current engine being a practical option but you could shop that idea around to a couple places. Your quickest option would be to set your tractor on the back burner...and buy another. Cubs are out on the web for sale all the time, and you could be mowing next week with it. I really think you could buy a whole tractor for the price of messing around with the motor. Good luck and keep us in the loop

[GMUmberger]

Not really the news I was expecting. The tractor has a 52” hyd lift deck. Not sure what route to take now.

[Tom Scott]

To replace that tractor with one of equivalent quality new is likely easily well in excess of $10,000.  (BTW, your deck is a 54" deck.)  Lack of oil maintenance is a costly lesson.  Low quality oil and/or infrequent oil changes can cause the oil rings to gum up and stick, then it starts using lots of oil.  Then if you don't top off the oil you end up here.  Obviously I've no way of knowing exactly what happened, I'm just outlining a typical scenario.

I believe those tractors had 20hp Kohler Commands.  I'd recommend pricing out the exact same replacement.  I do not recommend falling for the "engine conversion trap" as it requires a lot more skill to successfully transplant a different model engine.

Look up Ray Weaver in our vendors section.  He only responds to phone calls, so don't bother messaging through our forum.  Another source is another one of our moderators here, Joe Motuzick (username "JMotuzick".  Joe will respond to PMs through the forum and is generally quite active in locating and sourcing parts.  Both Ray and Joe are good parts sources and you can discuss what kind of assurances they can offer about the used Command they are offering.

Having a small engine shop pull it, sending to a machine shop for rebuild, then reinstalling is an option, but it will be very expensive.

Good luck, and keep us posted on the project.

[ksanders]

Before you get too far along here have you done a compression check on that engine? If it just died but restarted the low oil may have just been something you noticed and not the cause. May have blown a head gasket under load and died or something. It'll run on one cylinder and sometimes they'll even sound good on one cylinder but quickly die when you put it under load. Do a quick compression check and rule out bad head gasket or worse a broken rod. If compression is good on both it may be far less of an issue than you're anticipating.

[Tom Scott]

Good advice by Kevin.  We've all assumed the worst, but it may not be catastrophic.  Perhaps a simple sticking valve or something easy like that.  But the clue of "using lots of oil" then "no oil" sent me right to "catastrophe".

[BigMike]

Hopefully you find a simple fix.
Tom's statement about having a shop do the work makes me think of a situation of a long time Cub friend locally. He has a 1650 and had the engine rebuilt. It has never seemed to have the power he expected. After a number of years he contacted the shop that did the work and asked them if they would pull the engine and find out what the issue is, reinstall and get it running, of course, on the customers dime......the shop refused. Their stand is that they don't have the time anymore to such labor intensive jobs. It's sad but in the throw away world we have become even quality products are not worth fixing unless you can do most of it yourself.
 

[dag1450]

Gary these are all good points to consider. Just wondering if anyone has given you any answers you think you might try? You have not indicated one way or the other on your skill set to possibly do a deep diagnosis on your current engine. What are your thoughts about replacing the engine with a used one? Let us know your thoughts?

[GMUmberger]

Gentlemen I’m sorry I haven’t replied. Life has thrown me some other curves and put this issue lower on the list. Not sure my skills / confidence is up to an engine replacement. Ok at tearing apart , not so good at putting back together. It’s funny I have been saying for years when this tractor goes I’m going to get a zero turn. Now that it’s gone I really hate to let it go. The comments about replacing versus repairing may be cheaper surprised me. There is a local cub cadet dealer that is reasonable and trustworthy. I am considering hauling it over to him and paying for at least a diagnostic look.

[dag1450]

Thanks for the update. That sounds like a great plan. Let them give you the lowdown on what's going on.
When I said about replacing your tractor I was thinking a used tractor around $1200-1500. When I rebuilt my twin cylinder magnum maybe 5 years ago my cost for parts and machine work were over $1000 if I remember correctly and I did all the labor.

[Tom Scott]

Gary - Many used machines would come with their own hidden gremlins to sort out, so buying a replacement used tractor is not necessarily a slam dunk.  I think getting yours to a reputable shop is a good plan.  See what you have and make a decision from there.  It would be nice to see that machine saved!  

[GMUmberger]

Folks, Here is the latest update on my 2084.Still a Super Garden Tractor ! Had a family friend that is a good small engine repairman take a look with his trusty sidekick , my brother. First thing they found was a wire from the coil to the spark plug chewed in half by mice. Replaced the coil and wire put it back together and ran better but only on one cylinder. Took
it back apart and found a bent rod and a valve seat that came apart. Ordered a used head off of eBay which came complete. Replaced the head .
It appears that the possible cause of the breakdown was overheating due to a large mouse nest packed in between flywheel and head causing engine to overheat.
So far so good tractor is back up and running. All done for around $500 parts and labor. Hardly any labor cost. 
 

[BigMike]

 Took it back apart and found a bent rod and a valve seat that came apart. Ordered a used head off of eBay which came complete. Replaced the head .
It appears that the possible cause of the breakdown was overheating due to a large mouse nest packed in between flywheel and head causing engine to overheat.
So far so good tractor is back up and running. All done for around $500 parts and labor. Hardly any labor cost. 

Good news that you got it running well again and without having to do a full rebuild.
Bent connecting rod or a bent valve?
Hopefully a bent valve.
 

[Tom Scott]

Gary - Great news, glad it's been saved with minimal cost!

I'd recommend using this "scare" to encourage better maintenance going forward.

• Regularly check the oil and top off as needed.
  
• Regular oil changes at factory recommended intervals (I think it's every 50 hours if I remember correctly).
  
• High quality, straight weight oil with high zinc levels!  My personal favorite is Valvoline SAE 30 Racing Oil.  Might seem expensive, but cheap in the long run for the better protection:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DJ4FOFA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
• Note that multi weight oil (like 10W-30) breaks down much quicker and will burn more oil and also loses its lubricating properties.  Air cooled engines do much better with straight weight oil.
  
• Regularly inspect for mouse nests and damage.  Load up the area the machine is stored with mouse traps.
  
• Marvel Mystery Oil in every tank of fuel helps keep the valves lubricated in an air cooled machine.
  

Again, glad it all worked out.  Check back with us in a while and let us know all is still well!

[GMUmberger]

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 Took it back apart and found a bent rod and a valve seat that came apart. Ordered a used head off of eBay which came complete. Replaced the head .
It appears that the possible cause of the breakdown was overheating due to a large mouse nest packed in between flywheel and head causing engine to overheat.
So far so good tractor is back up and running. All done for around $500 parts and labor. Hardly any labor cost. 

Good news that you got it running well again and without having to do a full rebuild.
Bent connecting rod or a bent valve? Connecting Rod. 
Hopefully a bent valve.

 

[GMUmberger]

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[Tom Scott]

Gary, that is a "pushrod", not a connecting rod.  A connecting rod is what "connects" the piston to the crank.  When a connecting rod is involved, it generally breaks and it is catastrophic, generally destroys the block, hence Big Mike's questioning that as a failure.

So, stuck valve due to heat and possible inadequate lubrication due to low on oil, valve sticks then pushrod bends as valve is stuck and refuses to be pushed. 
You got very lucky, glad for it!  Keep up on the maintenance, hopefully good to go now.